Yahoo Sports: Notre Dame Under Investigation for Academic Fraud

I still think the whole idea of "vacating" wins is farcical.

As much as I enjoy seeing Noter Lame embarass itself, I can't avoid thinking that in the bigger picture this is not good for the sport I love most.

crimsonaudio said:

"Update 1:11 ET: our source tells us that all of Notre Dame’s wins from 2012 are definitely being vacated. 2013 still unclear."

Uh-oh...

Click to expand...

Does this mean Auburn is post-facto the national champs for 2012?

JBama_in_PCOLA said:

So, does Teo's Girlfriend get blamed for this one?

Click to expand...

Make fun all you want, but lets not lose sight of the fact that a girl who never existed is dead. :wink:

Catfish said:

Make fun all you want, but lets not lose sight of the fact that a girl who never existed is dead. :wink:

Click to expand...

You're right. Poor girl?

I think we are going to find out how many teeth the ncaa has left. ND will lawyer up and the ncaa will shut up.

crimsonaudio said:

Order your soon-to-be collector's item now!

http://ndfootball.wordpress.com/201...-the-undefeated-season-dvd-set-now-available/

:biggrin:

Click to expand...

I guess the game against us doesn't count. Oh well... as long as we're not vacating our last win of 2012 :-D

capnfrog said:

I think we are going to find out how many teeth the ncaa has left. ND will lawyer up and the ncaa will shut up.

Click to expand...

listening to McElroy and his sidekick on sirius and they're massaging notre dame for how wonderfully they're handling this situation and "getting out in front of it"...that's fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion.

but then they said "This is a Notre Dame issue, not a NCAA issue"

huh? this is ABSOLUTELY a NCAA issue. NCAA banned UNC from postseason + scholarship losses for academic fraud so the bar is set. Not sure how McElroy believes this is outside the NCAA's jurisdiction

JMO, but if ND kicks the kids off of the team, I would consider that adequate - assuming no one at the school in an official position knew about it, or should have known about it. I felt the same way about "book-gate" at Alabama. I just don't feel that schools should be punished for this type of mistake made by players. I liken it to a player that commits a crime.

Should a school be punished for something over which it really has no control?

I know that some will say that the NCAA has set a precedent. I get that argument, but counter it with my own argument that they were wrong the first time. Why should we want them to continue to get it wrong? For the sake of "fairness" we would continue injustice?

mikes12 said:

I still think the whole idea of "vacating" wins is farcical.

Click to expand...

Absolutely, everyone knows who won those vacated wins. IMO, if you vacate wins, you also vacate losses so that year or whatever year you are forced to vacate wins then your record should be 0-0. Vacating wins is totally absurd.

GrayTide said:

Absolutely, everyone knows who won those vacated wins. IMO, if you vacate wins, you also vacate losses so that year or whatever year you are forced to vacate wins then your record should be 0-0. Vacating wins is totally absurd.

Click to expand...

Exactly! ND is still undefeated in 2012 !!

B1GTide said:

JMO, but if ND kicks the kids off of the team, I would consider that adequate - assuming no one at the school in an official position knew about it, or should have known about it. I felt the same way about "book-gate" at Alabama. I just don't feel that schools should be punished for this type of mistake made by players. I liken it to a player that commits a crime.

Should a school be punished for something over which it really has no control?


I know that some will say that the NCAA has set a precedent. I get that argument, but counter it with my own argument that they were wrong the first time. Why should we want them to continue to get it wrong? For the sake of "fairness" we would continue injustice?

Click to expand...

BEG TO DIFFER... Academic Fraud, and cheating kept players eligible to play football.
No mistakes involved. Players conspired with teachers to break the rules.
These were intentional acts, not mistakes.

My question is... WHO KNEW?

Ole Man Dan said:

BEG TO DIFFER... Academic Fraud, and cheating kept players eligible to play football.
No mistakes involved. Players conspired with teachers to break the rules.
These were intentional acts, not mistakes.

My question is... WHO KNEW?

Click to expand...

What is worse, academic fraud by player or armed robbery by a player? The NCAA is smart enough to realize that a school cannnot keep a player from being a thug, but they are not smart enough to realize that they cannot keep a player from cheating in the classroom.

Again, I am assuming that the school was not aware and that they did not attempt to cover it up. Based on how they have handled this to date and how they handled the situation with their starting QB last season, I believe that this is probably as much a shock to the ND coaches and administration as it is to the rest of the college football world.

So, should the school suffer because they have cheaters or criminals on their team if they take appropriate action the moment that they discover the problem? IMO, they should be lauded, not punished.

Yup..And there's no way all this went on without HC Brian Kelly knowing & signing off to keep his star players eligible..And this doesn't include this scandal & death of this young man..There's only one college football team I truly hate & hope they lose every football game they play..

Here's The Link To Their Other Scandal..BRIAN KELLY MUST GO

As far as I'm concerned.. I don't care.

So many schools do this kind of thing. If they're going to try to clean it up, then really clean it up. Plus, Notre Dame has proven they can't win when attempting to live by their own lofty standards, and now they've proven they can't even win when they try to break those standards to get some kind of competitive advantage.

B1GTide said:

JMO, but if ND kicks the kids off of the team, I would consider that adequate - assuming no one at the school in an official position knew about it, or should have known about it. I felt the same way about "book-gate" at Alabama. I just don't feel that schools should be punished for this type of mistake made by players. I liken it to a player that commits a crime.

Should a school be punished for something over which it really has no control?

I know that some will say that the NCAA has set a precedent. I get that argument, but counter it with my own argument that they were wrong the first time. Why should we want them to continue to get it wrong? For the sake of "fairness" we would continue injustice?

Click to expand...

If the NCAA was willing to go back and make things right where there was injustice I might agree.

TideEngineer08 said:

As far as I'm concerned.. I don't care.

So many schools do this kind of thing. If they're going to try to clean it up, then really clean it up. Plus, Notre Dame has proven they can't win when attempting to live by their own lofty standards, and now they've proven they can't even win when they try to break those standards to get some kind of competitive advantage.

Click to expand...

I understand and share your frustration but do we just give up on standards? Do we throw out the rules because it is hard to enforce them. Without rules and standards, which keep the athletes in class with certain requirements and disallowing payment we would have another minor league sport. College sports are special and hopefully we can preserve them.