Game Thread: aTm @ USC

TideEngineer08

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As others have said, "It's just one game."

However, I think it's a case of A&M being better than we thought and USCe being very underwhelming.

KS's offensive approach is fun to watch and he gets receivers wide open in spaces for plenty of YAC.

I'll ask the question (and I know what some of you will say) but why in the world can't he get a DC like Kirby Smart and have a dominant defense?

If you put KS's offense with our defense and it would be a "wow" moment.

Don't say the two philosphies couldn't work together because I refuse to believe that.
They can't work together. Part of the reason our defense has been so dominant, is because our offense limits the opposing team's opportunities by possessing the ball, and draining the clock. Our defenses struggles have often times come when our offense couldn't convert 3rd downs and maintain possession, or when our offense would turn the ball over too often and put our defense right back on the field.

For a team that wants to score fast, its defense is always going to struggle to be dominant. It can be good.. but it's going to give up a lot of yards and points simply because it wears down from being sent right back on the field again and again.
 

mittman

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Though they didn't get through on a lot of blitzes the ones they did he had a problems getting away from them. If I remember correctly there were at least two where the blitz got there and he tried to escape but simply did have the athleticism to do it. He took major losses in yardage. But I agree, most of the time he got the ball out quick and the gamecock's coverage wasn't tight and most of the time aTm's receivers had decent cushions of space to catch the ball cleanly.
Yup.

I got a feeling we are going to see teams trying to jump routes on them.

Just one game, but one can't help but worry when they executed that well.
 

hokiefan10

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Ill tell yall what.... If south carolinas defense doesn't show up next Saturday vs East Carolina.. they will get beat. East Carolina runs the same air raid offense with a veteran QB. They will put up points, Carolina is knee deep in poo right now
 

CrimsonForce

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This is my take on the offense a&m is running and why it is so successful :

1) Almost all high schools now run some form of the HUNH/spread/read option, or whatever you want to call it. I don't know for a fact but I would assume that Kenny Hill probably started several years in high school running this offense. When these QBs get to college they already have several years of experience in this offensive system. Think about how many times Kenny Hill has probably thrown that quick slant or quick hitch route that he tore USCe apart with. I would say 1000s of times during his time in high school and while at a&m. I guess what I am trying to say is repetition and experience = effectiveness.

2) Rules are more slanted towards the offense now. You can't really hit the QBs or WRs, hard. We have all seen several hard but legal hits and the defensive player gets ejected along with a 15 yard penalty. This allows receivers to run more freely in the middle of the field and gives the QB more time to throw because he knows he isn't going to take a big shot by holding on to the ball till the last second, or if he does take a big shot he is going to earn his team 15 yards.

3) What I noticed in the a&m game is their offensive style basically takes the defensive line out of the game. The ball was out of Kenny Hill's hand so fast that the defensive line of most plays has no shot of getting close to him. Now this was mainly because the WRs were so wide open so maybe if the WRs were covered better the defensive line may have been able to get to him more often.

But...this offensive style is not unstoppable. I think the biggest mistake most teams make is playing a soft zone coverage like USC did just about all night. This give a&m a free 5 yards on almost every play. If you watch their receivers one or two of them always run a "hot route" which is usually a quick slant or quick hitch. If that pass was open Kenny Hill would zing it to that receiver. 9 times out of 10 that initial hot receiver was wide open. Only real way to counter this is to play tight man to man coverage. Of course the downside to man to man is you are then susceptible to RB and WR screens as the CBs are going to turn and run with receivers. a&m still has a couple of 6'6 receivers who could just chuck our DBs at the line and be gone down the field. So, IMO, to stop this offense you really have to play tight man to man and take that first hot read away from the QB. This should in theory give your defensive line more time to pressure the QB. And as many have pointed out Kenny Hill is not nearly elusive as JFF was. Playing this way just have to hope you don't get killed with screen plays and the QB scrambling.

To sum it up the offense is so simplistic but effective because it allows their players to play fast. It's similar to the offense Gus runs at AU. AU only had 3 or 4 running plays but it was so effective because that is all they practiced and they can play extremely fast because of the repetition they have in the plays they run. Same thing with a&m. They basically run one quick hitch route, one quick slant, a drag route over the middle, and a deep route on every play. The QB knows exactly where is he going based on zone/man coverage and has run the same play 1000s of time so it second nature. They make it look easy because that is basically the only play they run..
 
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cuda.1973

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This is my take on the offense a&m is running and why it is so successful :

1) Almost all high schools now run some form of the HUNH/spread/read option, or whatever you want to call it. I don't know for a fact but I would assume that Kenny Hill probably started several years in high school running this offense.
Two years, if I am correct. Plus more as a back-up.
 

Bazza

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FYI: SEC Network showing a replay of the game right now.

I think we learned something last night about both teams, specifically their QB's.

Too early to make any statements about where they will end up in conference play.

But Kenny Football is a reality and will be fun to watch in future games.
 

twofbyc

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FYI: SEC Network showing a replay of the game right now.

I think we learned something last night about both teams, specifically their QB's.

Too early to make any statements about where they will end up in conference play.

But Kenny Football is a reality and will be fun to watch in future games.
I'll go for "Kenny Throwball" right now, too early for him to earn the full monty, IMO.
 

BamaMoon

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They can't work together. Part of the reason our defense has been so dominant, is because our offense limits the opposing team's opportunities by possessing the ball, and draining the clock. Our defenses struggles have often times come when our offense couldn't convert 3rd downs and maintain possession, or when our offense would turn the ball over too often and put our defense right back on the field.

For a team that wants to score fast, its defense is always going to struggle to be dominant. It can be good.. but it's going to give up a lot of yards and points simply because it wears down from being sent right back on the field again and again.
That's the typical response and the reason given, but why couldn't A&M just stop USCe more/quicker and turn it right back over to the offense. Instead of running 99 plays, if their defense had been a little better than decent, they might have run 130 plays.

I understand the cause and effect of our offensive philosophy controlling the clock to allow the defense to be ready to play stronger/less often, but I don't think that's the only reason these run and shoot teams typically have poor defenses.

If I'm K. Sumlin, I'd try to double KS's salary and see if I could make it work.
 

Con

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That's the typical response and the reason given, but why couldn't A&M just stop USCe more/quicker and turn it right back over to the offense. Instead of running 99 plays, if their defense had been a little better than decent, they might have run 130 plays.

I understand the cause and effect of our offensive philosophy controlling the clock to allow the defense to be ready to play stronger/less often, but I don't think that's the only reason these run and shoot teams typically have poor defenses.

If I'm K. Sumlin, I'd try to double KS's salary and see if I could make it work.
Shhhhhh. Don't give those guys in Texas any more big ideas :D. I think offensive coaches just don't give any athletes to the defense. They recruit for either one side or the other. I think Coach Saban's philosophy seems to get players, and I mean good ones for both sides of the ball.
 

TideEngineer08

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That's the typical response and the reason given, but why couldn't A&M just stop USCe more/quicker and turn it right back over to the offense. Instead of running 99 plays, if their defense had been a little better than decent, they might have run 130 plays.

I understand the cause and effect of our offensive philosophy controlling the clock to allow the defense to be ready to play stronger/less often, but I don't think that's the only reason these run and shoot teams typically have poor defenses.

If I'm K. Sumlin, I'd try to double KS's salary and see if I could make it work.
I do believe it is the main reason. Also, these teams are almost always run by a head coach who is an offensive coordinator at heart. So his focus is on the offense, and the defense can sometimes become a bit of an afterthought - in recruiting as well as practice.

I don't believe a defense is built to go back on the field time and time again.. just by the nature of the game. Heck.. it's why these HUNH offenses exist in the first place. It's just a cause/effect relationship, IMO.

Ok let's say Sumlin does hire Kirby Smart. And Sumlin doesn't change his offensive philosophy one bit. IMO, Texas A&M's best hope for their defensive numbers would be something like 17-20 ppg allowed, and probably 350-400 ypg allowed. Not bad when their offense is putting up over 45 and 500 a game. But not the great defensive numbers we've been used to seeing at Alabama.
 

Mystical

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I have to finally admit Coach Sumlin can coach. Not so sure how bad SC defense is ATM has made every teams defense they have played look poor in the Sumlin era. Heck they made us look bad last year. We just had the benefit of that not being our first game. If anyone can find away to slow down that offense its Coach Saban. That defense for ATM is much improved. It is big play or nothing with them. Their young CB's should get better each week and they are stout up front. Next week will tell a lot when we see both of those teams play again. I really don't think SC is as bad as ATM made them look. I was hearing all summer how Sumlin would fall on his face with out Johny. Well that didn't happen so maybe the guy can coach after all. More than likely he will be heading to the NFL after this season. Dallas anyone?
 

BamaMoon

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Ok let's say Sumlin does hire Kirby Smart. And Sumlin doesn't change his offensive philosophy one bit. IMO, Texas A&M's best hope for their defensive numbers would be something like 17-20 ppg allowed, and probably 350-400 ypg allowed. Not bad when their offense is putting up over 45 and 500 a game. But not the great defensive numbers we've been used to seeing at Alabama.
They'd likely win/compete for the NC with those stats.

If they would have had a defense that could have slowed down Bama and the Barn last year they would have probably won it all with their offensive accomplishments.

I agree that until somebody does it, it'll always look like it can't be done, but I think it'll eventually happen in the new age of football.
 

crimsonaudio

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I don't believe a defense is built to go back on the field time and time again.. just by the nature of the game. Heck.. it's why these HUNH offenses exist in the first place. It's just a cause/effect relationship, IMO.
I don't necessarily agree - look at the TOP from last night's game:
aTm: 37:38
USC: 22:22

By way of comparison, Alabama averaged 32 minutes TOP per game in 2013, meaning the D was on the field for 28 mpg. Same numbers for 2012. IOW our defense was on the field (on average, per game) more in 2012 and 2013 than USC's was last night.
 
I have to finally admit Coach Sumlin can coach. Not so sure how bad SC defense is ATM has made every teams defense they have played look poor in the Sumlin era. Heck they made us look bad last year. We just had the benefit of that not being our first game. If anyone can find away to slow down that offense its Coach Saban. That defense for ATM is much improved. It is big play or nothing with them. Their young CB's should get better each week and they are stout up front. Next week will tell a lot when we see both of those teams play again. I really don't think SC is as bad as ATM made them look. I was hearing all summer how Sumlin would fall on his face with out Johny. Well that didn't happen so maybe the guy can coach after all. More than likely he will be heading to the NFL after this season. Dallas anyone?

That's the thing. Big play after big play will kill them. Truthfully, SC didn't look good at all last night. It's like they were shell shocked.
 

Mystical

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That's the thing. Big play after big play will kill them. Truthfully, SC didn't look good at all last night. It's like they were shell shocked.
Think they were listening to the talking heads that said Sumlin would fall on his face. When he came out and offense looked even better than last year....well they were shocked.
 

teamplayer

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Kudos to Kenny Hill

I want to say congratulations and thank you to Kenny Hill. First, he did something that Johnny jerk-off never did, but my thank you to him is for how he handled himself after playing such a great game. He was humble and appreciative and thankful towards his teammates. It was such a refreshing change from the idiot who has lead their team the last two years. Kenny, great game and thank you.
 

hokiefan10

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South Carolina let the media and hype get to them surely but its one thing to let the hype get to you and lose a 10 point game, ok thats fine. but they didn't stand a chance, A&M drove down the field and scored first possession and their WRs danced all over the secondary. DL looked horrific, out of shape. At this point I see Carolina's schedule

South Carolina
Texas A&M Loss
[FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, lucida grande, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]East Carolina Win (barely, i mean they will squeak by)[/FONT]
Georgia Loss
at Vanderbilt Win
Missouri Loss
at Kentucky Win
Furman Win
at Auburn Loss
Tennessee Win (Tennessee beat them last year, could give em trouble again)
at Florida Loss
South Alabama Win
at Clemson Win /depends on how Clemson is playing
7-5

8-4 would be magical,7-5, 6-6 are all possible with the defense I saw last night. I mean, I was shocked.

Props to A&M for sure.
BTW: I hope Bama kicks the living chit outta WVU tomorrow.
 

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