What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

PacadermaTideUs · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

TideFan in AU said:
LSU also gives of tons of yards on the ground, and they have lost games because they can't stop power run teams. If not for Wisconsin getting away from running the ball and throwing 2 picks last night, they lose that game. In SEC, you have teams power running teams with huge O-lineman and backs, and you also have lightening quick HUNH spread teams. If you build a defense that is optimum to stop one, you are probably going to struggle stopping the other. That is tough spot to be in, but that is what CNS is trying to do.

At the end of the day, our DB's have to play to better than they did last night, but that is true with pro style or HUNH teams. Either style of offense with a competent passing game would have give us trouble last night. I can say one thing though, our defense did do a pretty good of keeping things in front of them in this game. There weren't receivers streaking down the field for TD's. That was an improvement. I hate bend but don't break defense, but the truth is, that is what we saw last. If Christion catches that 60 yard pass and we make a tackle on the KO, we are sitting here this morning looking at 40 - 16 win on the front page of Sunday paper. That's how close this was to a blowout. OTOH, if WVU's receivers catch all of that those passes, we may have been looking at 37 - 33 loss, and people would jumping out of windows. That's how close it was to a loss as well.

I agree. I tried to make the same point early in the offseason when it seemed like everyone was screaming for a retool of the defense to a smaller, lighter. faster front seven. LSU has had success against HUNH because they run a base 4-3 but increasingly employ a 3-2-6 against HUNH passing teams like A&M. Consequently, they get gashed against the run. My point in the offseason is that you kind of have to pick your poison. We can sell out to stop the HUNH. But in the long run, I'd rather ensure we keep the ground game contained, and try to improve our DB play to keep the passing game in check. Last night, that's where we fell short, losing most one-on-one battles at the corner. Would've looked a lot worse had WV receivers not flat-out dropped so many balls. We REALLY need improvement at the corners.

I just threw out LSU in response to CA's call for who has done well against HUNH. Undeniably, LSU has. But they've fallen short against power running teams. How many conference and national championships have Chavis defenses been a part of? How many have our defenses been a part of, despite our troubles with HUNH?

CajunCrimson · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

Bamabuzzard said:
Why didn't we do the same?

Because their entire season was based on beating us --

Our season is based on beating Auburn......Auburn is a running HUNH -- WVU is a passing HUNH team

Bamabuzzard · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

CajunCrimson said:
Because their entire season was based on beating us --

Our season is based on beating Auburn......Auburn is a running HUNH -- WVU is a passing HUNH team

Auburn will be more of a passing HUNH this season. Gus made that very clear in the offseason. Go back and watch his other teams. His offensive philosophy is a passing HUNH. He switched last season because Marshall was bad at passing the ball.

Tide-one-on · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

I remember going to the Alabama -Houston game back in 2008 I think. Houston was coached by Art Briles and we jumped out on them 22-0. Next thing I know they are throwing passes in our end zone late to try to beat us. I told everyone I knew that if I was a coach, I would install that offense that night! They spread us out way back then. Just put us in a lot of one on one situations. I don't know how you really stop it other than keep them off the field, out score them in shootouts, and somehow get a pass rush. Maybe having guys ready to go in as soon as the previous play is over no matter what the situation is...I know someone said the days of good defenses may be over.

TexasBama · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

We pretty much stopped the HUNH yesterday. They only ran 69 plays. The offense held the ball for 37+ minutes.

What we didn't stop was the spread. To do that we're pretty much gonna have to have two shutdown corners, and we're not there yet.

Bamabuzzard · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

TexasBama said:
We pretty much stopped the HUNH yesterday. They only ran 69 plays. The offense held the ball for 37+ minutes.

What we didn't stop was the spread. To do that we're pretty much gonna have to have two shutdown corners, and we're not there yet.

The HUNH is what made the spread work. It speeds things so much the guys don't have much time to process information. The fast pace is the problem. Not the spread.

TexasBama · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

PacadermaTideUs said:
LSU's had much more success with it than most.

LSUs success, specific to Auburn, was running a 5 man front and thus limiting the speed sweep.

TexasBama · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

Bamabuzzard said:
The HUNH is what made the spread work. It speeds things so much the guys don't have much time to process information. The fast pace is the problem. Not the spread.

No problem. We'll just have to disagree.

RTR91 · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

Bamabuzzard said:
The HUNH is what made the spread work. It speeds things so much the guys don't have much time to process information. The fast pace is the problem. Not the spread.

The spread worked fine without the uptempo. Together, the spread becomes deadly.

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Bamabuzzard · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

TexasBama said:
No problem. We'll just have to disagree.

With the spread alone we could still substitute and diagnose presnap formations. With the up tempo we can't do any of that. We're basically just reacting without knowing what we're reacting to. Creating confusion by our defense and wide open receivers.

Al A Bama · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

Seems the HUNH offenses wear out our Defense with the fast pace.

We've got to control the clock, drive the ball down their defense's throats and wear them out that way. If their offense can't get on the field they can't be so fast paced!

davefrat · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

russtang said:
I've stayed out of most of the threads about "stopping" HUNH offenses because I think Alabama has done a better job that most against them and the stats back that up.
But, since there is always so much concern I'd like to know your opinions of what it actually means when people say "stop" the HUNH teams.

In your view, does it mean:

Keeping them under 400 total yards? 200?
Passing yards under 300? 200?
Rushing yards under 200? 100?
Keeping them under 25 points? 17 points?
Just getting a Win?
Any other criteria?

I don't think your going to "stop" any of them. You just have to slow them down enough to get more points than they do and get a win.

i will settle for not having to see the ball snapped while our players are running around in a chinese firedrill and/or looking over to the sideline in utter confusion with their hands on their hips while sucking wind like jet engine.

TouchThatThang · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

I think, right now, that CNS's scheme is hard to execute against HUNH teams and that they are not able to play impulsively. CNS complains about execution a lot but he needs to realize that his schemes are a little harder to execute than others. Right now, clearly, CNS thinks players executing properly will get things back to normal, and I think he's right. The question is if players executing his scheme properly against the HUNH is a realistic expectation.

IMO we've got to simulate the HUNH in practice often and effectively. Playing three teams a year (three dang good teams) that run it isn't enough. The more our guys are exposed to it, and running CNS' scheme against it, the better they will get at defending it.

JBama_in_PCOLA · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

To me, it means they haven't learned how to stop it yet. lol

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TouchThatThang · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

TexasBama said:
LSUs success, specific to Auburn, was running a 5 man front and thus limiting the speed sweep.

LSU's "success" involved yielding 400+ rushing yards to AU in 2010 and 28 points against AU in 2013...the same amount of points we yielded. They played AU early in the season before SEC Championship hopes entered their heads, before they hit their stride, when playing LSU close was considered the mother of moral victories...had they played them later, I have a feeling AU would've won. Then they got Johnny on a wet field.

Also, let's not forget 500+ passing yards against WVU in 2011.

RTR91 · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

TouchThatThang said:
LSU's "success" involved yielding 400+ rushing yards to AU in 2010 and 28 points against AU in 2013...the same amount of points we yielded. They played AU early in the season before SEC Championship hopes entered their heads, before they hit their stride, when playing LSU close was considered the mother of moral victories...had they played them later, I have a feeling AU would've won. Then they got Johnny on a wet field.

Also, let's not forget 500+ passing yards against WVU in 2011.

As many on here know, I like stats. Your post got me to thinking about LSU's perceived success. I went back to the 2010 season since they played WVU and Auburn.

Team	Points	Total Yards	Passing	Rushing	Turnovers	Plays	TOP	Outcome
2010 WVU	14	177	119	58	2	56	26:07	W
2010 Auburn	24	526	86	440	1	68	32:13	L
2011 Oregon	27	335	240	95	4	82	26:56	W
2011 WVU	21	533	463	70	4	87	26:38	W
2012 Texas A&M	19	410	276	134	5	95	30:10	W
2012 Clemson	25	445	346	99	2	101	36:21	L
2013 Auburn	21	437	224	213	3	86	30:49	W
2013 Texas A&M	10	299	224	75	2	59	19:41	W

Because LSU is 6-2 in games against the HUNH teams since 2010, folks want to act like they have stopped. The stats suggest otherwise. They've benefited from turnovers. With the number of plays and yards on the 2011 defense, many would say Oregon and WVU beat LSU. Thanks to 4 turnovers in both games, LSU won.

TideFan in AU · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

RTR91 said:
As many on here know, I like stats. Your post got me to thinking about LSU's perceived success. I went back to the 2010 season since they played WVU and Auburn.

Team Points Total Yards Passing Rushing Turnovers Plays TOP Outcome
2010 WVU 14 177 119 58 2 56 26:07 W
2010 Auburn 24 526 86 440 1 68 32:13 L
2011 Oregon 27 335 240 95 4 82 26:56 W
2011 WVU 21 533 463 70 4 87 26:38 W
2012 Texas A&M 19 410 276 134 5 95 30:10 W
2012 Clemson 25 445 346 99 2 101 36:21 L
2013 Auburn 21 437 224 213 3 86 30:49 W
2013 Texas A&M 10 299 224 75 2 59 19:41 W

Because LSU is 6-2 in games against the HUNH teams since 2010, folks want to act like they have stopped. The stats suggest otherwise. They've benefited from turnovers. With the number of plays and yards on the 2011 defense, many would say Oregon and WVU beat LSU. Thanks to 4 turnovers in both games, LSU won.

It is interesting that LSU gave up 44 more yards to AU last year than we did (437 for them vs 393 for us). The difference was we gave up 7 more points by our defense and 6 more on the FG return.

TexasBama · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

TouchThatThang said:
LSU's "success" involved yielding 400+ rushing yards to AU in 2010 and 28 points against AU in 2013...the same amount of points we yielded. They played AU early in the season before SEC Championship hopes entered their heads, before they hit their stride, when playing LSU close was considered the mother of moral victories...had they played them later, I have a feeling AU would've won. Then they got Johnny on a wet field.

Also, let's not forget 500+ passing yards against WVU in 2011.

LSU held Auburn to 21 points last year.

cuda.1973 · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

I have to side with Buzz and '91 on this one.

TideMan09 · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

The HUNH offenses won't be stopped, they're going to put up huge #'s & points, you have to try yo limit those #'s & points, and keep those offenses on the sideline, with our ball controlling rushing offense..When we have a dominate O-Line that controls the LOS..We win NC's..

What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

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