What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

russtang · Aug 31, 2014

What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

I've stayed out of most of the threads about "stopping" HUNH offenses because I think Alabama has done a better job that most against them and the stats back that up.
But, since there is always so much concern I'd like to know your opinions of what it actually means when people say "stop" the HUNH teams.

In your view, does it mean:

Keeping them under 400 total yards? 200?
Passing yards under 300? 200?
Rushing yards under 200? 100?
Keeping them under 25 points? 17 points?
Just getting a Win?
Any other criteria?

I don't think your going to "stop" any of them. You just have to slow them down enough to get more points than they do and get a win.

MVKTR2 · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

Rather obviously it means different things to different people. Generally I think it means one of 2 things to most people:
A - Holding the opposition down well below what their usual point/yd production is.
B - Holding the opposition to within a few pts of your normal defensive standard. ie, if you average giving up 10 pts per game to non hunh spread Os you average giving up maybe 12, 13 tops against hunh Os.

For me it's all about the points. I'm a big believer in a very few stats and believe yardage, total X, mean little. I do however believe strongly in turnover margin, scoring O, & scoring D. While 'stopping' any form of O is impossible on it's face, the defensive goal should be to render all offenses equally inert. Statistically this would show up in PPG stats. I'd say you're fine giving up something in the neighborhood of 7 pts more on average to hunh Os and considering it a success given the way they stress Ds.

Nolan · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

Who knows buddy... There is another thread about the HUNH and our supposed struggles with it. I will admit we have been gashed the last couple of years by teams that play with tempo but I'm not ready to throw my hands up and say, "We can't do it," like some others on here. I mean, gosh, WVU had completed a few passes and run for a couple of first downs and there were half a dozen posters in the game thread obsessing over the HUNH.

What I finally did was realize I needed expectations grounded in reality. We aren't going to shut every team out and hold them to less than 200 yards total offense. These teams we play want to win, too, and practice awfully hard to play their best - especially against big bad Alabama.

What matters to me are wins. That and improving over time...which I think we are. The main issue I see right now, and it's obvious, is our difficulty defending the pass in one on one, play the ball situations. Perhaps we will see Tony Brown, Humphreys, or Eddie Jackson step in and help with that - because it simply seems like we are losing a majority of those plays.

twofbyc · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

To me it means forcing punts, not allowing for any (or many) sustained drives that end with scores. That's how you "stop" any offense.
Against a HUNH, stops become critical to keeping a defense on its feet; allowing them to score 28 points in 15 minutes is a recipe for disaster, unless you are also a HUNH offense. Then it comes down to who has the ball at the end of the game.
Being (as a lot on here are) a believer in "if they can't score they can't win", stops against a HUNH are critical if you don't run a HUNH offense, for obvious reasons.
Bama did a great job of stopping WV last night when they got in scoring position (and in the red zone) by only allowing one offensive touchdown. The KO return almost proved costly, but WV's defense was ultimately no match for Bama's offense, and that surprised a lot of us, me very pleasantly so. I think the defense will get better, and building on what success they did have against WV will make them nasty by the end of the year (or sooner).
Jackson's return, and Brown/Humphreys experience in the next couple of games (hopefully) will provide a better group in the secondary, and that will seal the deal, IMO. NO INJURIES!!!!!

Clubfitter · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

russtang said:
I've stayed out of most of the threads about "stopping" HUNH offenses because I think Alabama has done a better job that most against them and the stats back that up.
But, since there is always so much concern I'd like to know your opinions of what it actually means when people say "stop" the HUNH teams.

In your view, does it mean:

Keeping them under 400 total yards? 200?
Passing yards under 300? 200?
Rushing yards under 200? 100?
Keeping them under 25 points? 17 points?
Just getting a Win?
Any other criteria?

I don't think your going to "stop" any of them. You just have to slow them down enough to get more points than they do and get a win.

As a Bama fan I like it when we shut out an opposing team. We like to stick out our chest and brag about which Bama team had the best defense ('61, '92, etc) Those defenses did not have to play against the HUNH. Think you are correct. Think we have to adjust our expectations of what a really good defense can realistically expect to hold a HUNH team too. Not sure what those numbers are. Last night our D gave up only 16 pts but it sure did not feel like it. Think WV shot themselves in the foot with dropped passes and a few bad throws or it could have felt a lot worse.

teamplayer · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

russtang said:
I've stayed out of most of the threads about "stopping" HUNH offenses because I think Alabama has done a better job that most against them and the stats back that up.
But, since there is always so much concern I'd like to know your opinions of what it actually means when people say "stop" the HUNH teams.

In your view, does it mean:

Keeping them under 400 total yards? 200?
Passing yards under 300? 200?
Rushing yards under 200? 100?
Keeping them under 25 points? 17 points?
Just getting a Win?
Any other criteria?

I don't think your going to "stop" any of them. You just have to slow them down enough to get more points than they do and get a win.

I think for me it means forcing more three and outs, not allowing open receivers to run free all over the field, closing all running lanes, and essentially crushing any opponent who dares to run this offense like a grape. Of course, these types of offenses specialize in getting their athletes open in space, so then I want us to punish them with hard hits when they do make plays. We struggle with all of the things I want to see, but, hey, I'm a Bama fan so it may be possible that I expect too much.

crimsonaudio · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

I'd like to see someone list of defenses that have consistently 'stopped' the HUNH teams.

Like any other offensive revolution, the defenses will catch up, but for now - people asking when 'we' will learn need to point out a defense that's learned how to do it.

cuda.1973 · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

Listening to Eli & Co, after the game, and I believe it was Phil who said the days of holding a team to 150 yds passing, and 200 yds total are over. That is going to be hard for our fans to accept, but football has changed.

At the post-game presser, CNS said we are a "dinosaur" in that we run a conventional set: 2 TEs, 2 WRs, and a FB. But, that works to our advantage in that teams aren't used to seeing our style of play, and it lets us do things the other team can't handle. My impression of his thoughts on stopping HUNH was our guys just need to what they are taught to do, and we will be ok. He was mainly upset at how they did none of what they were taught on the first series of downs. Not having a LB that was experienced hurt, especially when they were also responsible for setting the D.

I think "stopping" the HUNH means we don't get ourselves in a deep hole, that we have to throw our way out of. Half of that is on the offense, to sustain long drives, which keeps our D (and their O) off the field.

In the first aTm game: we fell behind. The D stiffened, we came back, and TOs sunk us.

Second aTm game: we built up a good lead, and Johnny Hancock went nuts, aided by officials missing a lot of holding.

API: held them below their average. We failed to score at critical times, and they benefited by more officials missing stuff.

Zero U: turnovers, mostly. They ran a different scheme than we planned for, and it took a while to catch on to it. Give them credit for knowing they had to throw in some new wrinkles to put us on our heels.

OK, 4 games over 2 seasons. Compare how those 4 teams fared against everyone else. We are not as bad as some want to believe.

bigjue24 · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

cuda.1973 said:
Listening to Eli & Co, after the game, and I believe it was Phil who said the days of holding a team to 150 yds passing, and 200 yds total are over. That is going to be hard for our fans to accept, but football has changed.

At the post-game presser, CNS said we are a "dinosaur" in that we run a conventional set: 2 TEs, 2 WRs, and a FB. But, that works to our advantage in that teams aren't used to seeing our style of play, and it lets us do things the other team can't handle. My impression of his thoughts on stopping HUNH was our guys just need to what they are taught to do, and we will be ok. He was mainly upset at how they did none of what they were taught on the first series of downs. Not having a LB that was experienced hurt, especially when they were also responsible for setting the D.

I think "stopping" the HUNH means we don't get ourselves in a deep hole, that we have to throw our way out of. Half of that is on the offense, to sustain long drives, which keeps our D (and their O) off the field.

In the first aTm game: we fell behind. The D stiffened, we came back, and TOs sunk us.

Second aTm game: we built up a good lead, and Johnny Hancock went nuts, aided by officials missing a lot of holding.

API: held them below their average. We failed to score at critical times, and they benefited by more officials missing stuff.

Zero U: turnovers, mostly. They ran a different scheme than we planned for, and it took a while to catch on to it. Give them credit for knowing they had to throw in some new wrinkles to put us on our heels.

OK, 4 games over 2 seasons. Compare how those 4 teams fared against everyone else. We are not as bad as some want to believe.

Amen!! This is not as big a deal as everyone believes. The '11 defense could probably still hold alot of teams to very little yardage, but that was a once in a generation group coming together at exactly the right time. They were all peaking together. There were no youth and inexperience problems on that side of the ball. That is one of the top 5 defenses of all time in college football. This group has that kind of talent, but they aren't all ready for primetime yet. Let's see how it all plays out. Bama and no one else are stopping these new offenses cold. The game is very tilted towards the offense right now, and will stay that way without rule changes. It is a fact of life.

I also agree that what we do on offense will make us more effective on that side of the ball because less and less teams are lining up and hitting you in the mouth. USCe didn't get under center and hand off to a good back all night against A&M.

bigjue24 · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

crimsonaudio said:
I'd like to see someone list of defenses that have consistently 'stopped' the HUNH teams.

Like any other offensive revolution, the defenses will catch up, but for now - people asking when 'we' will learn need to point out a defense that's learned how to do it.

Stanford is really the only one that comes to mind, and in reality Oregon, who they have crushed, is more run based.

PacadermaTideUs · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

crimsonaudio said:
I'd like to see someone list of defenses that have consistently 'stopped' the HUNH teams.

Like any other offensive revolution, the defenses will catch up, but for now - people asking when 'we' will learn need to point out a defense that's learned how to do it.

LSU's had much more success with it than most.

CajunCrimson · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

Not very educated with regards to defensive strategy on a large scale -- but I've watched enough football to realize that, with regards to the HUNH, you have to:

1. Play more of a Man to Man vs a zone defense -- a hot QB will pick apart a zone especially with only a 2-3 step drop....
2. Have your safeties PUNISH (a la - Landon Collins) -- the receivers after the ball gets there.....
3. Consider going with a 4-1-6 (3 corners, 3 safeties) and one LB who can roam the middle and one of the safeties has to help on run support....

We have built our defense to stop a HUNH with a strong running game -- and as far as that was concerned, mission accomplished....

Like others have said -- "IF" CJ catches the freebie -- and we knock the WVU KO returner OOB, it's a 20-24 pt spread --- and we might be number one tomorrow

BocaLance · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

Frustrating as it is, IMO it means bend-don't-break.
When Alabama had them on short field situations, they held really well - including/especially the stand at the 5.
Last night was a good first game test against what will be a good team.
Simply look at how badly SC was gashed by A&M Thursday night as an example of how not to "stop" it.

BamaJama17 · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

Well it felt like they scored 30+ on Alabama but in reality they only scored ***ONE*** offensive TD. That KO TD made it close.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

uaintn · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

I like it when our D squeezes the life out of teams, like in 1992, etc. but right now the game is different. You don't get any extra credit for good statistics, time of possession, TO margin.... So for now success must be measured the only way that really counts. We gave up 16 points last night. That should be good enough to win every game on the schedule. Problem is, the game the D played yesterday would likely not hold TA&M or the Barn to 16. Keeping the various types of pace offenses (air raid is different than rolling 5 play and read option) under their usual number of plays with your own offense controlling the football will be an indicator of success.

TideFan in AU · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

PacadermaTideUs said:
LSU's had much more success with it than most.

LSU also gives of tons of yards on the ground, and they have lost games because they can't stop power run teams. If not for Wisconsin getting away from running the ball and throwing 2 picks last night, they lose that game. In SEC, you have teams power running teams with huge O-lineman and backs, and you also have lightening quick HUNH spread teams. If you build a defense that is optimum to stop one, you are probably going to struggle stopping the other. That is tough spot to be in, but that is what CNS is trying to do.

At the end of the day, our DB's have to play to better than they did last night, but that is true with pro style or HUNH teams. Either style of offense with a competent passing game would have give us trouble last night. I can say one thing though, our defense did do a pretty good of keeping things in front of them in this game. There weren't receivers streaking down the field for TD's. That was an improvement. I hate bend but don't break defense, but the truth is, that is what we saw last. If Christion catches that 60 yard pass and we make a tackle on the KO, we are sitting here this morning looking at 40 - 16 win on the front page of Sunday paper. That's how close this was to a blowout. OTOH, if WVU's receivers catch all of that those passes, we may have been looking at 37 - 33 loss, and people would jumping out of windows. That's how close it was to a loss as well.

Con · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

BocaLance said:
Frustrating as it is, IMO it means bend-don't-break.
When Alabama had them on short field situations, they held really well - including/especially the stand at the 5.
Last night was a good first game test against what will be a good team.
Simply look at how badly SC was gashed by A&M Thursday night as an example of how not to "stop" it.

I think so to about playing a good team last night. WV should at least turn out to be a very solid offensive unit by the end of the year if they stay healthy. I have seen a few posters comment on WV's dropped passes, well we dropped passes too. Drops can be attributed to being scared #26 was about to lay the lumber. We will be o.k. and adjustments or drilling more and more on the fundamentals will be done I am sure. We have the best in the business.

92tide · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

I'm just guessing here, but i think some of what we saw from w va's success (in addition to having some very talented athletes) was a function of them spending all spring and summer watching last years barn and ou games and prepping for this game.

Bamabuzzard · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

92tide said:
I'm just guessing here, but i think some of what we saw from w va's success (in addition to having some very talented athletes) was a function of them spending all spring and summer watching last years barn and ou games and prepping for this game.

Why didn't we do the same?

bamanix · Aug 31, 2014

Re: What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

I believe these hurry up offenses, are effective with good dual qbs, strong off line, speed overall on offense. to beat them, you have to have depth thru out your defense. they want to wear you down to the 2d and 3d level of talent. the coaches have a lot of responsibility of coaching the substitutions, during the game. most of the typical competition do not have the level of talent to defend these guys for the whole game. look at yesterdays game auburn and Arkansas. arks played them even for a half, and then they wore down. we did not lose to auburn last year because of the auburn offense. our offense moved the ball at will. it was the penalty on the 8 yard line, ready to score. not getting 1 yard for a first down with two attempts, inside their 15 yard line. missed field goals. we do have the talent it is up to the coaches to get them there. the development of our def backs have been less than good lately. we use to be a team that covered sideline rush and pass so well, now our def backs do not come up in support on short passes or rushes. the west va game how many times I saw completions with 2 or 3 defenders around the receivers. how many times did I see cyrus jones, and sylve defend the pass with their back to the qb, and not have a clue where the ball was.

What does it mean when people say "we must learn to "STOP" the HUNH offenses"?

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