The defensive problems aren't the HUNH it's the CB's

Con

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I don't think people realize the impact Depreist being out had on the defense.
Poor ol' Reggie and Reuben were very confused for much of the game, and understandably so.
But when those two came down hill against the run though, there wasn't a lot of confusion. Pass drops though...
 

JustNeedMe81

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That's why I was encouraging everyone to watch the tapes again, and they will see things i saw that confirmed Slyve actually did better than thought and we improved in 4th quarter.
I was encouraged that they looked, and even CNS confirmed, that after some explaining at half, they 'got it' a little better...
 

imauafan

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I agree, and that was one reason I was so heartened at the signing of both Brown and Humphrey. We could have easily lost one or both. Both are just about as close to "can't miss" as is possible in recruiting. I recognize that an ACL or two and we could be back where we were. In the spirit that anyone can be questioned, we do have to ask if the complexity of CNS's DB defense has begun to work against us...[/QUOTE]

Bingo. This has been brought up a few times over the past few years and I have always agreed that perhaps our defensive schemes should be simplified. Perhaps we would play faster if they didn't have to think as much. I have some other thoughts on this that I may share later.
 

imauafan

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I wondered the same thing given what so many others have said about Trickett passing the ball so quick after the snap. Why not jam and reroute the receivers at the LOS and disrupt the play that way? I'd have to guess that our CB's are so small that they physically just aren't big enough to be effective pressing at the LOS.

Or maybe Bama's strategy against spread offenses is: 1) keep them off the field with our own long, clock-eating drives; 2) on defense, don't let the play get behind teh DB's and make these spread teams spend all their time getting to the red zone where they just don't have the space to run that kind of offense as effectively so we try to force FG trys; and 3) turn up the heat and pressure on D anytime that we are able to cause a negative yardage play.

If so, I would argue the strategy against WVU was successful but the execution could have been better. WVU got yards but their offense was not productive in getting points. To quote Ernest Hemingway: "Don't confuse motion with action".
That is the bend-but-don't-break philosophy. I've always hated that philosophy but I'm starting to think that may be the best way to deal with a lot of these HUNH offenses. Just like in basketball if you can force a fast-break team to slow down then you will frustrate them into making mistakes.
 

BigEasyTider

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That is the bend-but-don't-break philosophy. I've always hated that philosophy but I'm starting to think that may be the best way to deal with a lot of these HUNH offenses. Just like in basketball if you can force a fast-break team to slow down then you will frustrate them into making mistakes.
To an extent that is basically right, I think. You're going to give up a lot of yards and points, and you just have to limit it as much as you can with (1) turnovers, (2) red zone defense, and (3) a highly-productive offense of your own.

You're just not going to protect the football, play stout defense, and grind out a 17-14 win any more. Those types of games have basically gone the way of the five-cent hamburger.

For us against WVU, we did two of those three, and it was enough. Turnovers never happened, though, and they aren't going to until we start putting a lot more pressure on the football.
 

fundytide

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It's not the strategy sought to be employed, really, but in practice #2 is essentially what we end up doing.

Everyone talks about #1 -- playing keep-away -- but really that's not a real, viable strategy. You can certainly shorten a game that way and limit the overall number of possessions, but at the end of the day you've still got to out-perform your opponent on an overall per-drive basis. You don't necessarily get any real competitive advantage by going that route.
I agree. We still have to contest every play on D as much as possible but maybe not expect to win as many of those plays as we are accustomed to. But I do think that these HUNH spread teams thrive on rhythm. When they spend more time between drives standing on the sideline that rhythm is harder to establish and maintain.

I've always hated that philosophy but I'm starting to think that may be the best way to deal with a lot of these HUNH offenses. Just like in basketball if you can force a fast-break team to slow down then you will frustrate them into making mistakes.
Or if not frustrate them into making mistakes, at least force them to repeatedly successfully execute play after play. Even the best QB's are going to make a bad throw now and then and even good receivers will drop one every once in awhile- not to mention blocking.

runtheoption22 mentioned above that he thinks we keep the CB's 5 to 7 yards back from the LOS so that we don't get burned on fade routes and if I recall correctly, those fade routes burned us quite a bit over the past two years against teams like TAMU and OU.
 

Bamabuzzard

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It's like Saban said a year or so ago and I've quoted several time (paraphrasing), "Is this really what's good for the sport? Is this really where you want to see it go?"

I've said it several times, but I don't enjoy watching these HUNH teams - the completely remove the 'thinking' part of the game that makes it so intriguing to me. If people want basketball-on-grass, keep it up - people like me will eventually stop watching.
It completely takes strategy out of the game and yes, it if continues to progress I will be one of those that stops watching.
 

92tide

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That is the bend-but-don't-break philosophy. I've always hated that philosophy but I'm starting to think that may be the best way to deal with a lot of these HUNH offenses. Just like in basketball if you can force a fast-break team to slow down then you will frustrate them into making mistakes.
i think a lot of wv s drops/mistakes, especially late came from them being out of rhythm
 

GrayTide

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There seems to be 2 new advances in college football relative to the WRs and defending them. One, colleges have gone after 6-3" and taller WRs who don't necessarily have world class speed but use their height advantage against smaller CBs 5-10" to 6'. Throw it up for grabs and bet that the taller player will come down with the ball.

The second advance is under throwing the route anticipating the CB will not have time or the presence of mind to come back quick enough to break up the pass. This is really evident in man press coverage. The QB does not necessarily have to throw a perfect pass, just get it far enough that his WR can make a play on the ball. The CB has to play the ball, which sounds easy, but in today's game it is a helluva problem.
 

gtgilbert

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I agree to an extent...I think TDP will help with getting the right alignments and calls, but as far as coverage skills go, I doubt it will be much better at 260 lbs.
TD will be better for sure. Huge part of the LB cover skills is knowing where to drop and he has the experience. realistically, he's also not much slower than Foster, if he is at all and he's only 5 pounds heavier according to the roster. Plus he's listed as an inch taller which is certainly an advantage.

Foster has a lot of upside and this game will do him good. Being able to see himself on film and where he wasn't taking the ideal drops will be huge for him down the road. We knew coming out of HS that he wasn't solid as a pass defender but this will be a good building block for him.
 

BamaMcGowin

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I think our D-line play is "softer" than it used to be (before, let's say, 2011 and earlier) due largely in part to the "mush-rush" blitzing, and us not having a designated pass rusher DE or huge NT. We don't seem to be putting much pressure on quarter backs like we used to back in the 2008-2011 time period - all my opinion, of course. This is allowing the QB to have just a second or two more time to pick apart our secondary and find those small holes which anyone who is not a "shut-down" corner is going to leave.

I noticed, as did most of you, that WV was targeting Slyve. I alos noticed that with the exception of a couple plays in the whole game, he covered well. On one of those time he slipped and fell down. Other than that he was almost always right there with the receiver as the ball came. Yet there is a big difference between covering a receiver and defending the pass. His biggest lesson to take away from Saturday was to turn his head and find the ball. If Slyve changes this aspect of his game, we could see him becoming a very good CB. I can remember in years past when Milliner and Kirkpatrick were young that we ranted about them not having very much "ball awareness" but they did learn that eventually and became great CBs.
 

fundytide

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I think our D-line play is "softer" than it used to be (before, let's say, 2011 and earlier) due largely in part to the "mush-rush" blitzing, and us not having a designated pass rusher DE or huge NT. We don't seem to be putting much pressure on quarter backs like we used to back in the 2008-2011 time period - all my opinion, of course. This is allowing the QB to have just a second or two more time to pick apart our secondary and find those small holes which anyone who is not a "shut-down" corner is going to leave.
I agree. If I recall correctly, the first time I heard the term "mush rush" as a DL strategy was when Bama played Florida in the 2009 SECCG. But Tebow wasn't nearly the passing threat that he was when he ran the ball.
 

crimsonaudio

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For the record, here is Alabama's sack/game (spg) average for each season since 2008, along with it's national ranking:
2008: 1.7 spg (#63)
2009: 2.2 spg (#44)
2010: 2.1 spg (#49)
2011: 2.1 spg (#39)
2012: 2.7 spg (#21)
2013: 1.8 spg (#79)
2014: 3 spy (only one game, obviously)
 

imauafan

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I agree. If I recall correctly, the first time I heard the term "mush rush" as a DL strategy was when Bama played Florida in the 2009 SECCG. But Tebow wasn't nearly the passing threat that he was when he ran the ball.
I believe it was the 2008 SECCG that we used the mush rush and we pretty much shut down Tebow as a running threat and he did beat us with his arm. It was a great defensive strategy for UF's offense and nearly worked. Perhaps my memory is off but that is how I remember it.
 

fundytide

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Perhaps my memory is off but that is how I remember it.
Your memory is probably better than mine. I'm lucky I found my way home from work today. :biggrin:

I think I remember one of those passes though; In the red zone he threw the ball low and tight where nobody but the receiver had a chance. I think Arenas was really tight in coverage and just outside/behind the WR.
 

ROTYDE

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That's true, but here's the problem, in my opinion.
If you really look at it, our problem with the no huddle hurry up hasn't been stopping the run.
Our, as you say, "Gap control" does indeed help the linebackers make plays and we've actually stopped the run pretty darn well. I think W. Va. had 28 yards rushing??
The problem I see with our gap control defensive line philosophy is that it results in little to no pressure being put on the QB. This gives him a ton of time to throw and receivers a ton of time to get open.
My point is...Texas A@M, Auburn, Oklahoma, and West Virginia all hurt us more with the pass than they did the run, so maybe we should focus on applying pressure to the QB more than holding our gaps.
sip
Im all for letting the gaps go and mauling the QB...
 

bamaga

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I don't think people realize the impact Depreist being out had on the defense.
Poor ol' Reggie and Reuben were very confused for much of the game, and understandably so.
YEP, and playing with all new backers against a speed team was really worst case. It can only get better.
 
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