The defensive problems aren't the HUNH it's the CB's

BamaMoon

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Simple fact is a guy like Coach Stallings would be toast in this era of football. I think it is definitely challenging CNS as well. Imo, if you ever see the NFL go all-in with these type offenses and devalue the QB position much the same way they have with the RB position because of the higher risk of injury but also being able to effectively utilize a player at the position who has a lower passing skill, then we will absolutely have to change our philosophy. In my mind if that comes to fruition, I think the playing field will be as level as it has ever been because realistically at that point a kid will have a shot at playing in the NFL from any program in the country especially if they are a skill player or defensive back.

I dont know what to really make of this change. If I am CNS, I am inclined to become even more embolden on my philosophy of having a dominating running game because you will find few teams tooled defensively to stop it. However, this interim phase is pretty difficult to manage because we face as many spread offensive teams as we the traditional power pro-style attacks. But in reality defensively you almost have to have 2 different defensive platoons for either offensive approach.

As BET mentioned, alot of they guys who naturally would be top-flight DBs are now coming up through the ranks as WRs and as a result you are seeing passing efficiency at the collegiate level at a level that I have never seen it before. I am telling you the offensive synchronization that I say from A&M the other night was very impressive. Same goes for Auburn as well but with a different approach. We are trying to dismiss are losses based on facing a hot QB - but I dont agree with that premise at all. I think we are beginning to see the QB position played at a level that you can necessarily count defensive schemes that are designed to affect the QB without sacking him as a sound strategy anymore. There a lot of really good basketball players who work tirelessly to make shots with a hand in their face or while being hand-checked. I think we are seeing QB play throughout the country being developed along the same lines. If you are not touching the QB you are more than likely going to get torched nowadays. And offensive formations and hurry up schemes have made it virtually impossible to touch the QB with any regularity.
Right now, in the SEC you basically have the 6 top teams who are running pretty different offensive schemes. Bama, Georgia and LSU and still more traditional, pro-set teams. But then TAMU, Auburn and Ole Miss are more of the modern model.

So yes, it seems we need to have the ability to play against both, with relative success. We can't win the west without beating both kinds of philosphy, much less winning the SEC championship which looks like it might be Georgia.

ONe thing is sure. If Bama ever goes for a wholesale change in philosophy it'll be met with strenuous debate and the earth will rumble with many old-timers turning over in their graves.
 

KrAzY3

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I don't think a guy like Elam would be much help against AU, or any HUNH. I think he would be to tired to be effective. The problem with being a situational player would be getting him subbed out of the game against the HUNH after a few plays..
I mentioned it a thread somewhere, but against the HUNH, it's a win if you hold them to three points. They sacrifice so much on defense, and virtually never give them a chance to rest, so if you hold their offense to 3, you know you have a good chance of winning that exchange.

In that regard, having a big run stuffer can prove very useful once they get close to scoring position. I know their goal is to prevent this, but you just need that one chance to sub and you can put them in the game. At that point, the field is smaller, there are less places to throw the ball and run around, and a big guy will be harder to tire out. In addition, you're resting the guy who has to play the position most of the time.

Either way, I think it's important to keep those big guys, because if you face a good, up the middle running game, they'll be very helpful.
 

CrimsonForce

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Eh, not really. Sure that's true with a quality nose guard against an pro-style / interior run team, but spread teams and misdirection-based run spreads -- which includes Auburn, by the way -- will gladly block someone like that with only one offensive lineman. Guys like that are useless against bubble screens, jet sweeps, mobile QBs, and the like, all of which are staples of those offenses, and obviously their value only goes further down against HUNH teams once they get going because stamina becomes an issue.

Brandon Ivory is a pretty decent case study in this respect. Even though he has dropped probably 25 pounds and is a relatively small nose guard at this point -- he looks to be around 310 to me -- his size still rendered him a relative non-factor. WVU ran 79 offensive plays this past Saturday, and Ivory perhaps played on 25 of them (and I think that is actually being generous). Again, it's 2nd and 7 and WVU comes out with four WRs and runs a bubble screen. What good does a nose guard like Ivory, or any nose guard for that matter, do you in that situation? He's a liability at worst and a wasted spot at best because he can't really feasibly do anything to give you value.

Not saying guys like that don't still have some value in some contexts -- definitely want them around for Arkansas, LSU, Georgia, and on goal line defense -- but the evolution of offenses in the SEC has really turned them into situational players. The people who think that getting a stud NG is the solution to our problems defending the spread/HUNH are akin to those who thought the answer to the internal combustion engine was to raise faster horses.
This is what I was trying to say in regards to the monster nose tackles like Matt Elam and Terrence Cody. BET did a much better job at expressing those thoughts..
 

imauafan

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The purpose of those guys is to occupy 2 or 3 blockers to free up other players to make plays so that it is 10 players vs 8-9. There is value in that regardless of the offense they are facing. The NT position in CNS' scheme was never designed to chase down bubble screens or jet sweeps. Cody was perfect. Jesse Williams was very good as well. Chapman was not in their league but had a good senior year. Ivory, so far, has been a notch below Chapman. We could use an upgrade at that position.
 

BamaMoon

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The purpose of those guys is to occupy 2 or 3 blockers to free up other players to make plays so that it is 10 players vs 8-9. There is value in that regardless of the offense they are facing. The NT position in CNS' scheme was never designed to chase down bubble screens or jet sweeps. Cody was perfect. Jesse Williams was very good as well. Chapman was not in their league but had a good senior year. Ivory, so far, has been a notch below Chapman. We could use an upgrade at that position.
While what you say about a nose guard occupying two blockers is true, it doesn't help if it frees up a 250-260 lb. linebacker who's been sucked into the gap with the zone read fake, but a little scat back is running a 4.3 forty with the ball out in the flats.

This is our dilemma with the zone read, spread attack.
 

bigjue24

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The more I've read and thought about this the more I think that E.J. being back, he took first team reps today, Brown and Humphrey developing along with Depriest being back in the line up is going to fix many of the problems as the year goes. I know Depriest isn't in every package, but he will bring more stability when he is in, and Ragland and Foster will improve. There is no problem of talent just experience, and experience comes with reps and they are all going to get lots of reps the next two weeks.
 

BamaMoon

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The more I've read and thought about this the more I think that E.J. being back, he took first team reps today, Brown and Humphrey developing along with Depriest being back in the line up is going to fix many of the problems as the year goes. I know Depriest isn't in every package, but he will bring more stability when he is in, and Ragland and Foster will improve. There is no problem of talent just experience, and experience comes with reps and they are all going to get lots of reps the next two weeks.
Some lighter, faster linebackers may also help...once they are ready:

Rashaan Evans LB FR 6-3/225
Shaun Dion Hamilton LB FR 6-0/233

vs.

Trey DePriest LB SR 6-2/250
Denzel Devall LB JR 6-2/254
Reuben Foster LB SO 6-1/244
Reggie Ragland LB JR 6-2/254
 

BigEasyTider

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The purpose of those guys is to occupy 2 or 3 blockers to free up other players to make plays so that it is 10 players vs 8-9. There is value in that regardless of the offense they are facing.
You are making an argument that is built upon an inherently incorrect premise, which is that defenses dictate how many offensive players an offense devotes to a specific defender. The opposite is, in fact, the case, and the offense is the one who chooses how to allocate their personnel in that respect. Stated shortly, offenses dictate, defenses react.

That's the point I made above. These spread / run spreads aren't just going to devote "2 or 3 blockers" to a nose guard, no matter how good that nose guard is, they will instead happily block the nose all day long with just one offensive lineman.

Cody was great in his own right, but more to the point Cody thrived because he played at a time when essentially every single team on the 2008 and 2009 schedules relied heavily on the interior running game, and that's just by no means the case anymore. He'd still be a fine player, of course, but if you put him on the roster today he'd spend more time as a spectator than as a difference-maker.
 

CrimsonForce

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Some lighter, faster linebackers may also help...once they are ready:

Rashaan EvansLBFR6-3/225
Shaun Dion HamiltonLBFR6-0/233

vs.

Trey DePriestLBSR6-2/250
Denzel DevallLBJR6-2/254
Reuben FosterLBSO6-1/244
Reggie RaglandLBJR6-2/254
I mentioned that in another thread. It seems almost every linebacker or defensive lineman we bring in we add at least 30 pounds to them. Jonathan Allen is a good example. Wish we would keep a few of our linebackers on the lighter side to help with coverage and overall team speed. Just like their is diminishing value in a 360 nose guard I feel like having a 260 linebacker is almost a liability at this point against most teams..
 

BamaMoon

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You are making an argument that is built upon an inherently incorrect premise, which is that defenses dictate how many offensive players an offense devotes to a specific defender. The opposite is, in fact, the case, and the offense is the one who chooses how to allocate their personnel in that respect. Stated shortly, offenses dictate, defenses react.

That's the point I made above. These spread / run spreads aren't just going to devote "2 or 3 blockers" to a nose guard, no matter how good that nose guard is, they will instead happily block the nose all day long with just one offensive lineman.

Cody was great in his own right, but more to the point Cody thrived because he played at a time when essentially every single team on the 2008 and 2009 schedules relied heavily on the interior running game, and that's just by no means the case anymore. He'd still be a fine player, of course, but if you put him on the roster today he'd spend more time as a spectator than as a difference-maker.
And to add to that, one lighter center can get a combo block on a 350 nose guard and release to get a rub block a linebacker to allow them to not get into pursuit fast enough to make a play.

As comedian/singer Mike Snyder would say, "It's a booger of a problem that I've got, I wish my nose was running money but it snot."
 

tidefan39817

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to me, the whole concept is to create mismatches on defense. Sylve was a mismatch for most of the game for WVU. He may hold serve for most of the game and do just fine. but one broken play here or there and you get what you got Saturday. most of the time the spread offense is betting that the #3 DB on defense is not good enough to cover the #3 WR on the offense or that the D matches a LB on a big TE or WR. but, that is my opinion. also my opinion is that you have to recruit to combat the "numbers" game much like what Miami and FSU did in the 80's to combat the wishbone and Power I option games. recruit LB's and change them to DE's and change a strong Safety to a LB. to help in coverage an average CB can be switched to a safety in nickel and dime situations. The defense must also hit the QB not just pressure him.
 

RTR91

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Here's the play in question. Kelly does quickly go up field. Seems that Coker was slow on the release, though.

 

Con

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I don't recall how many were called last year, but I'm beginning to think SEC officials just don't make this call, not sure if it's ignorance or intent.
It could be like a middle school football official. Call something every once in a while to make it look like you deserve to be paid. Then you will get to go home quicker.
 

ontopp

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For the record, here is Alabama's sack/game (spg) average for each season since 2008, along with it's national ranking:
2008: 1.7 spg (#63)
2009: 2.2 spg (#44)
2010: 2.1 spg (#49)
2011: 2.1 spg (#39)
2012: 2.7 spg (#21)
2013: 1.8 spg (#79)
2014: 3 spy (only one game, obviously)
I like your disclaimer provide energy and support,that's why I can't talk for 3 three days after a game I may seem like a lunatic too some,but if we want our team to play like crazy. We have too be a little Crazy in the stands! ROLL TIDE
 

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