First Post - Defensive Coaching Mentality vs. Defensive Problems

Coach25 · Sep 3, 2014

Hello, I am new to posting but I have been a follower for years and years. I have decided to get involved because of the recent "sky is falling" mentality that a bunch of fans have started this year off with. Take a deep breath... The end is not coming yet.

Im curious that do people believe the defense is flawed beyond repair or do you think it could be coching mentality?

Let me explain why I think it's a coaching mentality.

We have gotten accustomed to a defense that stops teams in their tracks. That is just unrealistic this day of age with uptempo offenses, offensive biased rules, and creative offensive minded coaches. We are going to have to be a bend don't break defense. Make the offense work to get down to the red zone where those gimmick offenses have less room to work and hold them to field goal attempts.

We were able to do this by our coaches gameplan. Did it make me question what are we doing when our corners were 5 to 10 yards off the ball? Yes because I want them to be in press coverage and throw off timing of those recievers, but I also know that all it takes is one missed jam at the line, one false step, or one missed judgement and the offense is off to the races. Playing off the wr helps cover for minor mistakes. A false step and you can recover or give up a 15 yard pass with a slip instead of a 60 yard td.We kept them in front of us most of the game and them to field goal attempts.

I am not saying our defense can not play better because it can and it will. We missed tackles, in wrong coverage, missed assignments, helped out by some dropped balls, and didn't turn our head around to find the ball. All I am saying is that we were in decent position on throws over 20 yards. There was not a step and a half space between their wr and our defensive backs.

Our defensive line will be fine. This team has the ability to set sack records this year. It's hard to sack the qb when the ball is out of his hands in less than 2 seconds which 85% of Tricketts passes were. We still had 3 sacks and held them to 28 yards rushing (helped out by bad snap.)

Thank y'all for letting me post.

Roll Tide Roll

BamaMoon · Sep 3, 2014

First, welcome.

Second, thanks for the insights. As other have said, it's a different age of football and the "shut out" is likely a thing of the past.

Philippines · Sep 3, 2014

Nice job Coach

uaintn · Sep 3, 2014

Welcome. Thanks for your thoughts. I've been around a while and seen lots of offenses come and go. I think if the 45 seconds from end of play rule was not there, these offenses would not be so successful. And eventually smart defensive staffs will catch up -- they always do. I can think of a half dozen "innovations" that were supposed to be forever unbeatable -- wishbone, fun n gun, veer, run and shoot... The only one I think that was really unbeatable was the "flying wedge" and they outlawed it (and no, I don't actually remember that).

Picking up after the A&M game last year, our defense has actually been pretty successful on a points scored basis against hurry up teams. (Okla is an aberration; any time our offense turns it over like that, I don't care who we are playing, we'll be in deep stuff.)

Last Saturday's effort won't get it done against A&M, The Barn, or, say, Oregon. But we weren't playing them last Saturday. Excellent corner play is one key to it. So is fundamental open field tackling. Holding the ball when you are on offense is another. I'd say that holding any HUNH team without regard to what scheme they run to fewer plays than you run and 16 points is a pretty successful outing. The good news is that so far most of the HUNH teams play lousy defense of their own.

Hard to shut out does not equal impossible to beat.

theballguy · Sep 3, 2014

Coach25 said:
Hello, I am new to posting but I have been a follower for years and years. I have decided to get involved because of the recent "sky is falling" mentality that a bunch of fans have started this year off with. Take a deep breath... The end is not coming yet.

....

Roll Tide Roll

Welcome aboard, Coach and great first post! RTR!!!

GrayTide · Sep 3, 2014

Welcome aboard Coach and good post. I do think it is a coaching mentality adjustment that will have to be made and even with the proper adjustments will no longer lead to holding these type offenses to single digit scores. The game is evolving toward speed rather than size and brute strength. I am in hopes we will make the necessary adjustments.

Skeeterpop · Sep 3, 2014

I have a question about the sack totals and wanted to know if anyone knows the current college rule on this. Did we get credited for a sack on the high snap or on the intentional grounding. I was pretty sure you get one for the grounding but not sure on the high snap even though it would have been a pass play. Any thoughts?

gtowntide · Sep 3, 2014

Welcome and Roll Tide coach25. You make good points about how long the QB keeps the ball. I think we will be OK as this defense grows up a little each week.

Coach25 · Sep 3, 2014

Thank you all so much or your kind replies I have nothin by respect for tidefans posters. Tidefans simply the best out there.

I agree with uaintn, the 40 second continuos play is the only reason we see these hurry up offenses. The 40 second clock was made to speed up the overall game not the offenses themself.

When the 40 second play clock was first brought into ncaa football, refs would semi hustle to their positions and teams were slow gettin to the line. The powers to be thought we can hurry th refs as well as teams up if we use a running clock. Now comes the problem. Teams used this to gain a competitive advantage which is against the nature of the rule. They are now able to out gimmick defense coaches and try to catch defensive players not set or sucking wind.

That's why so many uptempo coaches are sweating bullets when they were considering a 10 second window for defenses to sub. They know if the refs allow teams to sub they can not catch teams off guard or wear defenses down. What's funny is now we are about to be the team that no one is used to seeing which will give us an edge because as long as Saban is here at Bama we will be a pro style offense. That's scary to think about in so many ways.

theballguy · Sep 3, 2014

All the good teams in the history of the game make adjustments. We'll do the same as needed. No worries. RTR!!!

nickel42 · Sep 3, 2014

Welcome to TF! It's truly the best board around, I think you'll agree. :BigA:

GP for Bama · Sep 3, 2014

Welcome aboard coach. You made a lot of good points. I believe in this game the coaches were being a little cautious. I agree that we are going to have a aggressive d-line. We are going to try to make the up tempo teams make wrong decisions. Very good offenses, with mobile quarterbacks, have been tough to defend for decades.

CajunCrimson · Sep 4, 2014

LSU handled the spread better than we do....because Les moved to lighter, quicker ends and backers. That helps them vs The Aggies and Auburn....but hurts him against power teams (38-17

) (see Arkansas and Florida games LY, for example).....which is all the more reason that I'm not as worried about LSU. We are better equipped to power them into submission.

We also still have enough beef on the DL if needed ---

This is also why I'm not even slightly worried about Florida --

I do see that Coach is looking to dominate the clock and keep the play in front of our guys -- and limit to field goals -- at worst.....and actually, it's a decent strategy.....

I think that if you avoid the KO return -- it's a 20-24 pt game....

Great first post .... welcome aboard.

KrAzY3 · Sep 4, 2014

The main problem is not the coaching, it's the lack of experience. The HUNH takes advantage of confusion and guess who gets confused easily? Alabama's defensive players are now perpetually some of the more inexperienced, due to players leaving early and a lot of true freshman playing. This inexperience is magnified due to the fact that Alabama doesn't run the HUNH typically and the players have seen less of it.

Look no further than Alabama letting West Virginia run up the middle last game. Inexperienced linebackers lead to early success running, but that quickly ended as things settled down.

There's nothing wrong with the defense, period (coaching or otherwise). Yes, adjustments need to be made, but they are made in the form of sacrifices. Alabama gets lighter, they gain one advantage, and they gain another disadvantage. That's how it works. It's more a matter of what Alabama wants to give up, to gain something else. But, as I said, the primary issue is inexperience. Vinny for instance left after 3 years (and at the time, he was one of Alabama's most experienced players and was sorely missed in the Auburn game), on most teams he'd have ended up a 5th year senior. Stanford's defense gets a lot of credit for stopping Oregon, but no one wants to talk about the fact that they had two 5th year senior All-American linebackers.

Isaiah 63:1 · Sep 4, 2014

Welcome Coach.

One key to slowing the HUNH offense, indivisible from all the defensive ones, is on the offensive side, and was evident versus WVU. At one point in the game, WVU began to slow down its offensive pace, and one broadcaster (I forget who) said that because we were controlling the ball on offense so well, Holgorsen needed to give his defense more time to rest between series. Bingo.

In other words, if you have a ball-control offense, you turn the HUNH into its own defense's worst enemy. They have to slow down, negating their only real advantage. Then, only a red-hot QB (which Trickett was not) and uber-dependable receivers (which no WVU player not named White was) can make that team a threat that day.

Nolan · Sep 4, 2014

I think our defense needs some time to gain experience and develop, too. By mid-season on, barring injuries, the entire unit from upfront to the back end could become very tough and effective. This bodes well for late season games against the likes of aTm and Aub.

twofbyc · Sep 4, 2014

KrAzY3 said:
The main problem is not the coaching, it's the lack of experience. The HUNH takes advantage of confusion and guess who gets confused easily? Alabama's defensive players are now perpetually some of the more inexperienced, due to players leaving early and a lot of true freshman playing. This inexperience is magnified due to the fact that Alabama doesn't run the HUNH typically and the players have seen less of it.

Look no further than Alabama letting West Virginia run up the middle last game. Inexperienced linebackers lead to early success running, but that quickly ended as things settled down.

There's nothing wrong with the defense, period (coaching or otherwise). Yes, adjustments need to be made, but they are made in the form of sacrifices. Alabama gets lighter, they gain one advantage, and they gain another disadvantage. That's how it works. It's more a matter of what Alabama wants to give up, to gain something else. But, as I said, the primary issue is inexperience. Vinny for instance left after 3 years (and at the time, he was one of Alabama's most experienced players and was sorely missed in the Auburn game), on most teams he'd have ended up a 5th year senior. Stanford's defense gets a lot of credit for stopping Oregon, but no one wants to talk about the fact that they had two 5th year senior All-American linebackers.

They beat Oregon and stopped (slowed down substantially) the HUNH more than once..in their coach's own words, you beat teams like that by controlling the line of scrimmage. Bama didn't do that against any HUNH team they've played (except OM) because those teams had superior offensive lines, plain and simple. Disrupting the timing and penetration are the only ways to beat an offense like that with a quality O line; keeping plays in front of you won't work against teams with better athletes than WVU (like barn and ags and maybe OM this year). CNS had a pretty good idea it would work well enough against WVU; he didn't count on the missed tackles. He also knows it will not work against the ones coming up on the schedule; I have total confidence we will see a change in how the defense operates in those games as opposed to what we saw in the first game. There is a reason he gets the big bucks....

KrAzY3 · Sep 4, 2014

twofbyc said:
They beat Oregon and stopped (slowed down substantially) the HUNH more than once...

Of course, but I looked up attrition (after a discussion about them) and their attrition just doesn't compare to Alabama's. Everyone talks about all those Alabama draft picks, but the downside is a lot of those draft picks are leaving early. That's just not happening with Stanford. Furthermore, they play Oregon every year, so they are obviously more experienced against their offense. Alabama faced A&M's offense twice, they faced Auburn's new offense once really.

I don't think people have enough confidence in Alabama's coaches, despite the mountains of evidence that they should. It makes sense that Alabama struggles against offenses they are unfamiliar with, in particular when they are using inexperienced players. Heck, Alabama struggled against Georgia Southern in 2011, they gave up more points to them than any other team that year! But, it was obviously the novelty of that offense (which has some similarities to Auburn's offense) that lead to that, not a deficiency of the 2011 defense.

But, they gave up more points to an FCS team, with that amazing 2011 defense than they just gave up to West Virginia! Not only that, but they gave up 341 yards, on only 46 plays. Was everyone asking what was wrong with Alabama's defense after that game? No, they believed Saban when he said the main issue was they don't see that type of offense usually. The main issue is experience...

twofbyc · Sep 4, 2014

KrAzY3 said:
Of course, but I looked up attrition (after a discussing about them) and their attrition just doesn't compare to Alabama's.

Couple of points but I won't belabor - across the board, Stanford doesn't have the athletes Bama has had, and leaving early would do very few of them any good draft-wise. Plus, if you are into academics, it's hard (even if you are a Bama grad) to disagree with the fact that any degree from Stanford (market value) > any degree from Bama. So there's that.
As for experience vs that type of offense, don't leave out OM (Bama had great success - better athletes). I disagree wholeheartedly about the "experience" being the difference, as Oregon was for a while the only team in the PAC with that offense (untill RR came along). Bama has seen it enough to know how to defend it.

KrAzY3 · Sep 4, 2014

twofbyc said:
Stanford doesn't have the athletes Bama has had, and leaving early would do very few of them any good draft-wise.

Agreed... but does that not make it clear that the caliber of athletes has little to do with stopping the HUNH? Vinny was not one of Alabama's most gifted athletes, we all know that. Yet, he was a fantastic tackler, and despite being there only 3 years was one of a handful of experienced Alabama defenders. That's the contrast, a 3 year guy compared to a 5 year guys. Athleticism is useless if you don't know where to be and what to do. Stanford makes the point... it's not how good the athletes are, it's something else.

Ole Miss simply hasn't done a very good job of implementing that offense (or should I say they haven't done what it takes to make it elite). Alabama is a very, very good defense and that's what I'm asserting. I never contended that they can't stop the HUNH, but merely that their inexperience is the main weakness. Texas A&M and Auburn though, they run very different offenses, so the notion that playing one prepares you for the other isn't really true. But, playing Oregon every single year prepares you for playing Oregon, given that their offense has remained pretty much the same...

Stanford lost to Oregon in 2011 and 2010. They gave up 53 points in 2010, and they gave up 52 points in 2011! That's with David Shaw and the same defensive coordinator! What was the deal? Same coordinator, same linebackers... may be experience? We're talking about a team that gave up 105 points in two years to Oregon, and people are actually suggesting Alabama be more like them...

First Post - Defensive Coaching Mentality vs. Defensive Problems

1st Team

Hall of Fame

Scout Team

All-American

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

All-American

1st Team

Hall of Fame

1st Team

All-American

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast

Hall of Fame

All-American

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!