Why is Pat Dye in the College Football Hall of Fame?
- Thread starter ptw1961
- Start date
Auburn University.....the only university to name their stadium and their field after coaches that got them on probation!
I don't find the bolded quote above to be a winning argument, but of course, that's just my opinion.
Everybody else is doing it too is not a legit defense in my opinion.
Dye left Auburn in a bad way. If I remember correctly, players under Tater Tot admitted they were paid by Dye's staff while Dye was the coach.
His greatest accomplishment at Auburn was to not get nailed for his cheating.
Barner fans love to point out Coach Bryant loved his booze. Given some of the interviews I've heard Dye give on the radio, it's my impression Dye likes his booze too, and that's putting it mildly.
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He benefited greatly from Alabama's loss of Coach Bryant and his leadership. He was a slightly better than average coach who took advantage of a down period in the SEC, particularly Alabama. Even so he won zero national titles and was anything but an innovator. He's not a Hall of Fame caliber coach, player maybe.
And you are a wise one to note this....
Thank you, I appreciate the compliment.
The OP asked why he's in the Hall of Fame; I answered the OP short answer. The short answer received a response to which I responded. That's all.
Look, Dye is not in the Bryant-Rockne-Neyland level of coaches, no. But it's like the Baseball Hall of Fame - not EVERY player is within the same zip code of Willie Mays, but that doesn't mean they don't belong.
But that wasn't the point, either. The allegation is that Dye paid players and that somehow this made him into something he wasn't. All I'm saying is that Dye's school was not the ONLY ONE at the exact same time doing it. I would point out the fact that Ole Miss, UGA, and Florida were all doing it and yet Dye is the only one to win four SEC titles is actually a point in his favor - in fact, it takes all the air out of the "he only won because he had bought players" argument.
You can't criticize me for responding to an allegation made without context.
But that's a two-edged sword.
But I'll tell you what: let's take out all of the coaches we KNOW were on teams that got put on probation for paying players - how about it? If you'll be consistent, I have no problem with this thing with Dye.
So we can take the following guys out for sure:
Coach Bryant - Jim Dent's book "The Junction Boys" documents Bryant having knowledge of the slush fund dispersed to pay players. He didn't directly do it (but neither did Dye....). Keith Dunnavant (who posts here on occasion) documents Bryant's minimal knowledge (citing an SI article from the 1960s) with the following quote: "I know now that we should have been put on probation...I'm not sure how many of our boys got something. I guess about four or five did. I didn't know what they got, and I didn't want to know, but they got something because they had other offers and I told my alumni to meet the competition" (Dunnavant, "Coach: The Life of Paul 'Bear' Bryant," 116-7). Or maybe John Underwood's book, "Bear: The Hard Life and Good Times of Alabama's Coach Bryant" - the first page of chapter sixteen documents Bryant saying, "At A&M, I don't know whether we would have won or not without paying players, but I'll say this: most of the kids didn't play like they got something."
If your issue is REALLY bought players then fine - we'll kick out Coach Bryant, too. And while we're at it, we can toss Barry Switzer and Gene Stallings overboard, too. Especially Stallings, in light of the fact his winning pct barely qualifies him (it's nearly 100 points under Dye's) AND he was in charge of the team when it got put on probation. Switzer was run out of town and his firing called for by influential alumni groups at OU.
And the moment you kick out Bryant and Switzer, you may as well not even have a Hall of Fame.
(Note: don't anybody write me any sanctimonious responses about "how dare you" say what I just said. What I stated has been known for awhile. I demand consistency in myself and strive to meet it. Don't pillory other folks while ignoring the problems in your own argument - that's my only point).
But this disingenuous since you wouldn't have posted this had he not coached Auburn.
Where's the diatribe against Lou Holtz, for example?
At the risk of you calling me sanctimonious, I'm going to defend Coach Bryant and Coach Stallings.
Coach Bryant was at aTm a long time ago, it was fairly early in his career. We know what happened, every little detail.
Dye basically skated when he left Auburn, to this day we still don't know how widespread the corruption was under him. To compare Coach Bryant's Junction Days to Dye's run while at Auburn is not a fair comparison. One coach made some mistakes early in his career, and never repeated them. The other coach made his name using the teams he bought. I see a big difference, even if others want to deny it.
And then to go after Stallings...
Comparing the way Stallings left Bama on probation to how Dye left Auburn on probation? :conf2: Many think Bama was abused by the NCAA, and don't fault Stallings to the same degree that Dye can be faulted.
Stallings is a good man. So was Bryant. They both belong in the Hall of Fame. I don't think Dye deserves to be there, and that's my opinion.
Well, it is the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Shame. The issue is not finding the worst coaches in history (Dye would not be on that list either).
Still, four conference championships in a SEC in chaos, but no national championships, plus the baggage of blatant and obvious widespread cheating would probably not warrant inclusion in the HoF.
That said, he is Auburn's best coach since Shugg, and the HoF is in the capital city of the state in which Auburn is a state university, so they've got to find someone for the HoF and Dye represents their best chance to have someone get in.
The difference is that Pat Dye, despite his shortcomings and NCAA rules violations, had friends. He tended to at least pretend to be a nice person and treat most other people well. So, there are people who know him who like and support him. Much like Barry Bonds, Pete Rose spent his entire life treating almost everybody he came in contact with like dirt. Consequently, when the stuff hit the fan, there was almost nobody who had any reason whatsoever to support him. But, that hasn't stopped Barry and Pete from whining, "Why isn't anybody taking up for MEEEEE???"
Somewhat off topic but the inactive Gump For Heisman did a hilarious biographical account of Pat Dye's lost pants story. Not linkable here due to strong language and adult content but a Google search should turn it up for you.
Are you sure it was him and not his pants that were inducted?
'Hall of Shame' (I've never lost my pants...)
Hey, at least Dye was willing to "throw us a bone" when he had the chance.
When Coach Dye found out that Jeff Burger had been accused of plagiarism his response was
"What kind of disease is that?"
When Coach Dye found out that Jeff Burger had been accused of plagiarism his response was
"What kind of disease is that?"
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