State Penn's bowl eligibility has been restored

CullmanTide

Hall of Fame
Jan 7, 2008
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Cullman, Al
Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

Can't always get what you want.
I've been around a long time and know more than a few who's life has been destroyed or drastically altered because some monster took their innocence away. It affects everyone around them. I can't think of anything worse. I hope you never come across anything of this sort in your life. It will change your view of the world.
 

Al A Bama

Hall of Fame
Jun 24, 2011
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Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

Do we know for sure what Paterno et al. knew and when he/they knew it. I thought there was still much undecided over this.:confused:
I just think JoePa was naive and OLD and only thought about football and how to beat Bama and other teams on Penn State's schedule and had no idea what that, ___ ____, who was his Defensive Coordinator was up to. He probably didn't know such things even happened on this football centered Earth.

JoePa coached football, then went home to momma each day. Periodically he would give money for the PSU library, etc. I honestly think he was a good man who had no idea what was happening. He probably should have retired ten years before he was forced to.

The person who deserves punishment is in prison. Maybe he will get what he wants there with older men. Maybe he finally got a head coaching job at the State Penn instead of Penn State.

Now, I'm not sure about the President or Athletic Director at Penn State when all this was happening in low places.

I wasn't happy when Bama players were punished in the early 2000's for something they had no part in. Phat Phil Phulmer is still in my top 5 list of despised people on this football centered Earth. The current Penn State players had nothing to do with what happened with that Slime Ball Defensive Coordinator either or the President or the Athletic Director.
 

TideEngineer08

TideFans Legend
Jun 9, 2009
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Beautiful Cullman, AL
Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

No, I haven't.
Evidence below. You've repeatedly said the fans and players were innocent. You, along with others, have talked about how this happened so long ago (when it really didn't, it only started so long ago and went on for well over a decade) and those currently involved with the program shouldn't have to suffer for that. I've given my opinion of why the whole thing needed to have been destroyed. And as I stated in my prior post, I know you don't agree with that premise. Most of society obviously doesn't. For my part with you in this conversation, I'm done. Not because I'm upset with you, but simply because I've more than given my point of view and I'm beating a dead horse now. I won't clutter up this thread with that anymore.

There's nobody on that team that was responsible for what happened. Don't think they should be the ones punished.
OK, take a typical case from the real world. A company bribes foreign officials. That's a violation of the law. What typically happens? The company pays a fine (which Penn St did), the responsible parties are fired and prosecuted (again, happened here), and a compliance monitor is installed. If after a certain amount of time, the monitor reports that the company is staying in line, the indictment is discharged and they are released from further obligations (Sen. Mitchell filled this role).

The only part of this that isn't commiserate with a corporate situation would be the bowl ban, which is an ineffective and unrelated punishment. It would be like if you took the employees' retirements away because of what the company did.

And yes, vacating Joe Pa's wins was a significant punishment in this instance because of the historical factor and his chase to be the all-time winningest coach. But once again, that was only a part of the punishment.

I'm done with this conversation, as witch-hunters gonna hunt, but I am happy for Penn State, happy for their fans, and glad the NCAA did what it did.
Yes, because they remained loyal to their university, they must be punished. If only they had taken them more mercenary position. Then they would be worthy of praise.
 

KrAzY3

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Jan 18, 2006
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kraizy.art
Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

It's hard to read through that timeline and think he didn't.
For the people who didn't read through it, and somehow still state Paterno wasn't aware. He was made aware at least two times, and in the latter instance he had someone come to him as a person in authority, to say they witnessed Sandusky abusing a child. There's no room left for him to be naive, for him to not understand, for him to somehow not get what was going on. He had someone come to him first, making it his responsibility. And this wasn't the first report of this sort of thing that Paterno heard!

Paterno basically was Penn State football. In either instance, but in particular the latter, had he pushed at all to insure that Sandusky was stopped and was punished, it would have happened. Paterno didn't even call the police! If someone came to me, and laid the terrible burden at my feet of knowing someone was abusing children, I couldn't rest, I couldn't do anything, much less focus on football until I knew everything possible was being done to put this individual away. Paterno knew what Sandusky was doing, and for reasons he can't tell us, he chose instead to let it be buried.

What Paterno knew and still allowed to go on was really was truly terrible. In 1998 Paterno was made aware of some allegations regarding Sandusky. This issue was subsequently swept under the rug, and after the season was over, they let Sandusky go. That's right, Penn State waited to let Sandusky go until after the season was over, and that's with Paterno knowing since May what he'd been up to! The football season was apparently more important than getting rid of a potential child molester.

Then, in 2001 Sandusky, who for reasons that can't really be explained with what we know, was allowed to continue bringing children to the Penn State campus, was witnessed raping what appeared to be a 10 year old boy! Who is the first person in power to be told? Paterno, that guy who had already been made aware of previous Sandusky behavior, the man who had to have seen numerous boys with Sandusky over the years. At this point Paterno knew, without any doubt, that Sandusky was a child rapist.

Now, you or I, or almost any reasonable human being armed with this knowledge would not stop until Sandusky was put away. How could we live with ourselves otherwise? Yet, what does Paterno do? He passes the buck, and then acts like it never happened. He goes back to coaching, he doesn't do anything apparently (unless it was behind the scenes actions of a devious sort to protect Sandusky). What we can infer from Paterno's behavior, is that he had a choice. He could have acted to protect children, but instead he chose to worry about his precious Penn State football program. You can guess at his motives, but he left no room for doubt in one regard. Penn State football was more important than protecting children from rape.

It's fitting that after Penn State got the initial punishment they complained. They complained that their investigation was being used against them, I mean they didn't actually think that their findings would have real consequences, who'd have thought that? They complained that the punishment was too harsh. Their priorities were wrong the whole time, why get them straight then? Why say that no punishment could be adequate, why say that the football program is trivial next to the suffering of those children? That sort of attitude would never have allowed the rapes to continue in the first place, and clearly isn't how things work in Penn State.

It's also fitting that a crowd would gather, cheer, and glorify Paterno after the punishment was lessened. Football, after all, is much more important than the welfare of children over there. What's 20+ children being raped next to Penn State football? Not much apparently, it never was, and that's the problem.
 
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jthomas666

Hall of Fame
Aug 14, 2002
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Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

I just think JoePa was naive and OLD and only thought about football and how to beat Bama and other teams on Penn State's schedule and had no idea what that, ___ ____, who was his Defensive Coordinator was up to. He probably didn't know such things even happened on this football centered Earth.

JoePa coached football, then went home to momma each day. Periodically he would give money for the PSU library, etc. I honestly think he was a good man who had no idea what was happening. He probably should have retired ten years before he was forced to.
I attended Penn State in the 1990s. During the early 90s, when the coverup began, Paterno was in his mid 60s--just a few years older that Coach Saban is now. He was no doddering fool; quite the opposite. He knew everything that was going on in his program. Throughout the 90s, it was a given that Sandusky would succeed Paterno. Then, out of the blue, Sandusky up and retired. At the time, No one really know what had happened, but the speculation was that for some reason, Sandusky had been told that he wasn't going to succeed Paterno, and decided to hang it up. In retrospect, it's pretty clear that he was paid to leave quietly. Sandusky had been on Paterno's staff for 30 years; you honestly think Paterno didn't know why his closest associate just up and quit?
 

mittman

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Jun 19, 2009
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Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

It's hard to read through that timeline and think he didn't.
IF the timeline is true yes it is hard, almost impossible. But it is not impossible. It is plausible to think that he was that much removed from everything not involved in coaching football (especially later on). And very plausible that he heard the rumors (early on). It is stated that he was told directly, and he could have just not believed them. Some people cannot buy that, and I am hesitant to. However, I have been fooled enough by people I was very close to as well. Not to this level, but anyone who has should be able to sympathize some.

That is not to say he should be accountable, should have known, and that his reputation should be tarnished by this. He was held accountable and his reputation (which in the end was all he had left) is toast. I don't care how much sympathy is given or rehabilitation is attempted, his name will always be associated with this. That is a tough pill to swallow for that family.

I attended Penn State in the 1990s. During the early 90s, when the coverup began, Paterno was in his mid 60s--just a few years older that Coach Saban is now. He was no doddering fool; quite the opposite. He knew everything that was going on in his program. Throughout the 90s, it was a given that Sandusky would succeed Paterno. Then, out of the blue, Sandusky up and retired. At the time, No one really know what had happened, but the speculation was that for some reason, Sandusky had been told that he wasn't going to succeed Paterno, and decided to hang it up. In retrospect, it's pretty clear that he was paid to leave quietly. Sandusky had been on Paterno's staff for 30 years; you honestly think Paterno didn't know why his closest associate just up and quit?
I don't believe he didn't know, but based on some experiences I have had, I can see how it could happen.
 
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ALA2262

All-American
Aug 4, 2007
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Cumming, GA
Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

a bizarre decision from the NCAA on this one and to actually comment they restored the bowl eligibility and scholarships because they are making "impressive progress" and 15+ years of denials, cover-ups, and kids in therapy?

i truly hope this isn't the case but a person who is a nitter fan thought the timing wasn't just a coincidence with the big 10's top programs losing this week (UM, MSU, OSU) as the conference will need all the help they can get to have 1 team in the playoff.

this is just a horrible decision by the NCAA...embarrassing, really
Big 10-4 had to have a team in the CFP mix. NCAA to the rescue.

http://www.ocala.com/article/201409...iming-of-Penn-State-s-NCAA-parole-seems-fishy
 

TrampLineman

Hall of Fame
Jul 21, 2010
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Alabama
Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

If someone came to me, and laid the terrible burden at my feet of knowing someone was abusing children, I couldn't rest, I couldn't do anything, much less focus on football until I knew everything possible was being done to put this individual away.
Yep even if it was my brother, father, or best friend I would have stomped his tail right then and there and STILL called the cops! Not hide them for years and let it continue like Paterno did. I agree with most that they should have shut the program down for a few years.

I find it sickening that folks would go out in public and cheer about this crap. If this happened at Alabama I would have found another team to root for and I've always been a diehard Bama fan since I can remember. There is no way I would have protested and acted like it didn't happen like the morons up there did. Like most have said already they act like it never happened.

And people wonder why rape victims don't come out and report this stuff? Now you see why....
 

Chukker Veteran

Hall of Fame
Feb 6, 2001
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Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

Yep even if it was my brother, father, or best friend I would have stomped his tail right then and there and STILL called the cops! Not hide them for years and let it continue like Paterno did.
This is one situation where I would have thought bodyslamming the pervert was a good policy, to heck with what might happen afterwards.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
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Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

This comes from e-mails between NCAA personnel.



 
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Go Bama

Hall of Fame
Dec 6, 2009
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16outa17essee
Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

Very interesting read. I hesitate to comment here because of the backlash, but IMO this case was so horrific it never seemed right for the NCAA to have any jurisdiction at all. Now it comes out that the NCAA was bluffing and PSU caved. This is really going to enrage the PSU fans who feel that innocent people have been punished. Some will ask for the 60 million back and at the very least to have the vacated wins restored. Well, if PSU gets their wins restored, there's no reason Alabama shouldn't get wins restored also.
 

mittman

All-American
Jun 19, 2009
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Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

I'm not surprised at all. The NCAA enforcement has practically lived on bluffing for their entire existence.

However, I doubt seriously they would have been allowed to stay out of it. As I said earlier their was a loud clamor for the NCAA and every possible entity that had a smidgen of jurisdiction to do everything they could get away with. For me this is just an acknowledgement that they were the wrong entity to pursue justice, and that they were being forced to anyway.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
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Prattville
Re: Penn State's bowl eligibility has been restored

Now, we learn the NCAA gave Louis Freeh's firm 32 questions, which partially guided them on their investigation. Link

The report says that NCAA president Mark Emmert first requested to speak with Freeh on Nov. 30. The sides continued to correspond throughout the investigation and even after the Freeh Report was released.

On Dec. 28, 2011, for instance, the NCAA emailed the firm a list of questions regarding Penn State's football culture and the behavior of university officials who knew of Sandusky's actions, suggesting that the NCAA at least partially guided Freeh's investigation. According to ESPN's report, one of the questions was, "How has Penn State University exercised institutional control over the issues identified in and related to the Grand Jury Report? Were there procedures in place that were or were not followed?"
 

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