News Article: If Scotland can secede, so can Texas
- Thread starter Bodhisattva
- Start date
I guess what I find refreshing is that the United Kingdom went about the whole question in a liberal, civilized manner.
The pro- and anti-secession campaigns both tried to convince the voters of the merits of their cause, nobody threatened to kill or maim hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens, the voters listened to both sides and made up their minds.
That sounds fairly civilized.
And I would bet that if the anti-secessionists had called independence-minded Scots traitors and issued threats that if Scotland tried to leave, England would murder and maim thousands of their countrymen, we would now have an independent Scotland.
The pro- and anti-secession campaigns both tried to convince the voters of the merits of their cause, nobody threatened to kill or maim hundreds of thousands of their fellow citizens, the voters listened to both sides and made up their minds.
That sounds fairly civilized.
And I would bet that if the anti-secessionists had called independence-minded Scots traitors and issued threats that if Scotland tried to leave, England would murder and maim thousands of their countrymen, we would now have an independent Scotland.
Texas is a part of my territory and has been for over a decade
I spend at least 1 week a quarter in TX and have for the last 10 years. So that's roughly 40 weeks in TX in the last 10 years, split between Austin, Dallas and Houston with Austin being the most visited (and far best) city in TX for me
I have at least 200 Texans in the thousand plus in my linked in and a good dozen or so on facebook
my current boss lives in TX and is a native as do several family members and one of my best friends at work who is a Texan native and very active in TX politics.
I know Texas and Texans well. I've had to listen to their rants on Robert Earl Keene, The Alamo, Why TX is superior to every other thing ever and why Colt would have won the game if he'd have stayed healthy
I know Texas and Texans well enough to know that if put in charge of their own destiny they would screw it up royally. Hell most of them still defend Rick Perry even though he's been indicted. 75% of the ones I know (outside of Austin, inside of Austin its more like 50%) happily lie about the founding of this country, just like their "historian" hero David Barton does, though many of them aren't smart enough to know they are lying they just happily repeat what Fox news tells them.
Oh and I sell to the State of Texas so I know people in multiple state Agencies across the State.
and the Georgia analogy? Take away Atlanta and you have Alabama, no difference. I don't get what you mean about the AJC, how would removing our crappy newspaper change anything? TX is different because of the history and the overall sense of superiority of the population, Texans seem to think that they are better than the rest of the US because they were once a country, They do not like it being pointed out that they Failed as a Country
Help me understand where Texas failed as a country. The only reason Texas formed as a country to begin with is because the US was too scared to annex Texas for fear of upsetting Mexico. History seems to have come full circle doesn't it?
https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/mga02
https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/mga02
Let's separate the arguments here
this is all hypothetical but its been fun for me so I'm willing to keep rolling
Forget the states as they exist today because the Constitution and wonderful organizations like the FFRF And ACLU protect non-believers so using them as some sort of argument as to what may or may not happen is irrelevant.
Same with Texas's current constitution, secession in my mind would involve retooling the State as a country. In that the State Constitution is dissolved and something new is created. It is my opinion that this new thing would be quickly overtaken by the people who run Texas now who are very clearly evangelical and would push that way. Theocracy may be strong but it would, in my mind, be built on what these people say they think they want which is a country built on Christianity for Christians.
On theologies and their existence, several have existed throughout history, multiple of them right now. Sure no Christian one's but that doesn't mean it can't or won't ever happen. Your argument seems to imply that nothing new could ever happen. Clearly that is absurd.
on the issue of Christian versus Secular societies is a bit of a hard point to argue when again there are no christian countries, well except the vatican which is of course dripping in blood and offenses against children
If you want to look into the past and argue how christians had a hand in ending slavery and enabling civil rights I will agree. I would also argue that this only happened after many, many years of using the same bible to promote slavery (Jesus does tell you explicitly how to treat your slaves after all!) as well as justify separation of the races.
lasted less than a year and wasn't strong enough to stand on it's own equals failed nation to me
Its probably no worse than me telling Aggies, Longhorns and Bears that I moved to Texas to convert them to the one true religion of Alabama and that I bow down to Denny Chimes 5 times a day. The Baylor folks at our church seem to have an extremely difficult time with such heathen behavior.
Perhaps closer to 9-1/2. In true Texas fashion, the start date is claimed as March 2, 1836 - four days before the Alamo had fallen. There was a small matter of Santa Anna's army wandering around Texas that seems overlooked.
The Velasco Treaty was signed on May 14.
oops, thanks for the corrections all 10 years before they failed is better than 1
You’re a good sport.
I’m not sure that is true. Just because a state dissolves its connection with the federal government does not mean it has to throw its own state constitution out the window. No state in 1860-1861 did that. I’m not sure why we need to assume Texas would in this case.
Not that nothing new would happen, just that I see no reason it inevitably would have to, or would even be likely to. What I would foresee in the event of Texas independence (at least in terms of its religious policy) would be something akin to Texas when it adopted its current state constitution, no state-supported religion, but a prohibition of atheists from holding public office. That prohibition is not cool, in my book, but it does not mean exactly Christian concentration camps for non-Christians either.
My own view is pretty much what Jefferson’s was, in the Virginia Statute of religious liberty:
Thomas Jefferson said:
Lots of countries have made Christianity a significant part of what it means to be a citizen of their respective countries.
I just think you are seeing some fundamentalist Baptist theocracy as a boogey-man. Do you really think Texans now are more stridently conformist now than they were a century ago (i.e. before incorporation of the I Amendment and its application against the states)? The Founders said religion was just not a Federal issue. Connecticut and Massachusetts had a state-funded religion until 1818 and 1833. Incorporation of the establishment clause is a relatively recent innovation.
I don’t think Jesus had anything to say about slavery one way or another. Paul urged slaveowners to treat their slaves humanely and urged slaves to be obedient. That, however, was, I believe, pragmatism. Rome had recently had some serious slave revolts and any new religious movement urging emancipation would have been snuffed out as a threat to the existing order. I think Paul thought there were bigger issues at stake.
"Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven." (Col. 4:1)
"Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior." (Titus 2:9-10)
For the record, I am not condoning slavery, nor do I believe early Christians actively approved of it. It existed before there were any Christians, so they accepted it as existing and worked to mitigate it.
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The American colonies voted their independence in July 1776 (Virginia voted her unilateral independence in June 1776), and there was a small matter of a British Army in New York. Heck, the British didn't leave New York until 25 November 1783, but that is not the date we recognize as American Independence Day.
March 2nd is analogous to the 4th of July, since on those dates the representatives of the people declared their independence.
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