Illegal motion question

uaintn · Sep 19, 2014

The Ols said:
The problem with the barn (one of the many) is the RB. When they spilt them out, then bring them back in to the backfield, they never set before the ball is snapped. If you watch them closely, they do this all of the time. It should be a penalty every time, yet I've never seen it called.

100x this. The former penalty for failure to be set before the snap is now completely ignored. And the various posts are right, too. RBs cannot simulate a snap or move towards the line of scrimmage. The Barn, among others, does both of these things all the time. The winded officials who are bent over trying to catch a breath, apparently don't notice or don't have the energy to throw a flag.

I cannot believe the way the officials have let themselves be ordered around by coaches and even players on no huddle teams.

BamaMoon · Sep 19, 2014

Bamabuzzard said:
Did you notice a few times last night Gus about busting a gut because the officials weren't spotting the ball fast enough. I wished one of them would have walked over there and told him "You can run your offense as fast as you want but we're not apart of your offense. Now shut up."

DocCrimson said:
If he gets bad enough about that, can they flag him for conduct?

TIDE-HSV said:
I think he's stepped over the line (sometimes literally) a number of times. I think that they're afraid of the fallout and looking like they're on Saban and Bielema's side on tempo of play. Doesn't seem to bother the NFL refs, though...

I didn't know this was discussed in this thread, but I started another thread discussing Gus's behaivor between plays. I agree, the refs aren't part of the offense and they need to be told by Steve Shaw (in SEC games) to quit aiding and abetting the whiney butt!

B1GTide · Sep 19, 2014

uaintn said:
100x this. The former penalty for failure to be set before the snap is now completely ignored.

Good point - it is called all the time in the NFL. I can't remember the last time I saw it called in a college game.

CrimsonForce · Sep 19, 2014

If all these plays that AU is running are penalties why isn't Bama and all the other schools sending in clips of the plays to the officials office so it can be addressed. Maybe we are and nothing is being done about it..

bamaga · Sep 19, 2014

BamaFlum said:
I believe if the linemen don't have a hand down, they can come back up if the movement doesn't mimic a football move. The backs must come set or be moving sideline to sideline or even backwards.

Did I get that right?

that is correct, but you have to be set for a full count before the ball is snapped. this never happens. Plus , the tackles in pass happy offenses line up in 2 point stances, their hands never touch the ground . they lean forward to watch center hand signals. how is that not offensive encroachment? I know our team does it as well, but some of these rules are going the way of 'travelling' in the NBA.

davefrat · Sep 19, 2014

I don't even know what I'm watching half the time anymore between the hunh stuff and defenders getting flagged for sneezing while tackling.

Go Bama · Sep 19, 2014

From the NCAA rule book:

b. Man in Motion.

1. One back may be in motion, but he may not be moving toward his opponent’s goal line.
2. The player who goes in motion may not start from the line of scrimmage unless he first becomes a back and comes to a complete stop.
3. A player in motion at the snap must have satisfied the one-second rule—i.e., he may not start his motion before any shift has ended (Rule 2-22-1-c).

I interpret this to mean the back can move until the line is set. After the line is set, a back may start his motion, but no "jumping around".

bama2112 · Sep 19, 2014

dadleyblane5 said:
That is correct...

Go Bama said:
From the NCAA rule book:

b. Man in Motion.

1. One back may be in motion, but he may not be moving toward his opponent’s goal line.
2. The player who goes in motion may not start from the line of scrimmage unless he first becomes a back and comes to a complete stop.
3. A player in motion at the snap must have satisfied the one-second rule—i.e., he may not start his motion before any shift has ended (Rule 2-22-1-c).

I interpret this to mean the back can move until the line is set. After the line is set, a back may start his motion, but no "jumping around".

So if your a official how do you interpret a lineman moving in motion and becoming a back? Is a back a receiver also or just a running back. I can see how the officials might want to clarify that rule if it has not been ask of them already.

IMHO CBS has an off duty official they consult with when there is a replay. Maybe Vern or Gary could do a Talk to the Reps segment at halftime, not that we dont have to listen to Brando anymore. What rock had he crawled under. Sorry to highjack the thread, but looks like we all miss him a lot , I cant recall one thread about him since the season started and I dont want to be the one that starts one.

Go Bama · Sep 19, 2014

bama2112 said:
So if your a official how do you interpret a lineman moving in motion and becoming a back? Is a back a receiver also or just a running back. I can see how the officials might want to clarify that rule if it has not been ask of them already.

IMHO CBS has an off duty official they consult with when there is a replay. Maybe Vern or Gary could do a Talk to the Reps segment at halftime, not that we dont have to listen to Brando anymore. What rock had he crawled under. Sorry to highjack the thread, but looks like we all miss him a lot , I cant recall one thread about him since the season started and I dont want to be the one that starts one.

Here ya go.

Back:
1. A back is any Team A player who is not a lineman and whose head or shoulder does not break the plane of the line drawn through the waistline of the nearest Team A lineman.
2. A back is also the player in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap.
3. A lineman becomes a back before the snap when he moves to a position as a back and stops.

TIDE-HSV · Sep 19, 2014

CrimsonForce said:
If all these plays that AU is running are penalties why isn't Bama and all the other schools sending in clips of the plays to the officials office so it can be addressed. Maybe we are and nothing is being done about it..

The clips are sent in. The league office is caught in the middle. A big part of the problem is that HUNH high-scoring games sell. People would much prefer to watch a 52-47 shootout than 10-6. They're reluctant to do anything which might cramp the cash flow...

JDCrimson · Sep 19, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
The clips are sent in. The league office is caught in the middle. A big part of the problem is that HUNH high-scoring games sell. People would much prefer to watch a 52-47 shootout than 10-6. They're reluctant to do anything which might cramp the cash flow...

I dont know why this is the case. Last night's game was rather low scoring and I think it was very entertaining up until the end. Likewise, I thought our 9-6 game with LSU was very intense. And I thought Auburn's 3-2 tussle with MSU a few years ago was utterly hilarious... :biggrin:

To me if it is a high scoring game, I often find myself just checking in on the game because I assume the teams will just go back and forth and I can just sort of keep up with it. However, if it is a defensive struggle I find myself drawn to watch because you obviously want to see the scores when they happen knowing there will be few opportunities.

TIDE-HSV · Sep 19, 2014

JDCrimson said:
I dont know why this is the case. Last night's game was rather low scoring and I think it was very entertaining up until the end. Likewise, I thought our 9-6 game with LSU was very intense. And I thought Auburn's 3-2 tussle with MSU a few years ago was utterly hilarious... :biggrin:

To me if it is a high scoring game, I often find myself just checking in on the game because I assume the teams will just go back and forth and I can just sort of keep up with it. However, if it is a defensive struggle I find myself drawn to watch because you obviously want to see the scores when they happen knowing there will be few opportunities.

It's just a matter of taste, and tastes these days run towards shootouts...

BigBama76 · Sep 19, 2014

JDCrimson said:
I dont know why this is the case. Last night's game was rather low scoring and I think it was very entertaining up until the end. Likewise, I thought our 9-6 game with LSU was very intense. And I thought Auburn's 3-2 tussle with MSU a few years ago was utterly hilarious... :biggrin:

To me if it is a high scoring game, I often find myself just checking in on the game because I assume the teams will just go back and forth and I can just sort of keep up with it. However, if it is a defensive struggle I find myself drawn to watch because you obviously want to see the scores when they happen knowing there will be few opportunities.

It can go both ways I guess. The Bama v Ole Miss game in 69 with Scott Hunter and Archie Manning was one of the most thrilling I've ever seen. On the other hand, a tight defensive struggle like our 9-6 game can be just as thrilling or intense as well.

These 50-47 games usually look like tag football to me.

teamplayer · Sep 20, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
I thought it had been answered above. The RB is prohibited from moving except parallel to the LOS. Also, two men cannot be in motion simultaneously ...

So if a receiver is in motion and the running back is bouncing, it should be a penalty. Check!
If the bouncing back starts his lean toward the line of scrimmage prior to the snap, it should be a penalty. Check! The linemen, however, can bob up and down as long as they haven't been deemed set by putting their hand down. Check! Thanks, guys, I knew I could count on you.

teamplayer · Sep 20, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
The clips are sent in. The league office is caught in the middle. A big part of the problem is that HUNH high-scoring games sell. People would much prefer to watch a 52-47 shootout than 10-6. They're reluctant to do anything which might cramp the cash flow...

This relates to a point I make here with some frequency. I don't know any real football fans who enjoy those types of games. You are correct about the cash flow because the networks certainly hope the "fringe" fans tune in more for the shoot outs. Therefore, the networks pressure the leagues to bend the rules. In other words, they change the game. I've said for many years that if they take care of the game, the money will always be there. If they just try to take care of the money, the game will go away.

B1GTide · Sep 20, 2014

teamplayer said:
This relates to a point I make here with some frequency. I don't know any real football fans who enjoy those types of games. You are correct about the cash flow because the networks certainly hope the "fringe" fans tune in more for the shoot outs. Therefore, the networks pressure the leagues to bend the rules. In other words, they change the game. I've said for many years that if they take care of the game, the money will always be there. If they just try to take care of the money, the game will go away.

I consider myself to be a pretty hardcore football fan. When watching my teams, I want to see a solid defensive effort. I would rather have one of my teams field a great defense than an even average offense. I sincerely believe that defenses win championships at all levels of the sport.

That said, if I am watching a game between two teams that I really don't support, I love a good shoot-out. I would love to see Clemson beat FSU with a score of 52-45 tonight. It would be a blast to watch.

When LSU beat Alabama 9-6 a few years ago the sentiment was almost unanimous - that the game was boring and almost impossible to watch. Only Alabama and LSU fans really appreciated that game - and it was a real gem. If all games were like that there would almost certainly be a decline in TV audiences.

Coach25 · Sep 20, 2014

My biggest problem is with linemen moving once set. If a lineman is set, he should not be able to come up and look over to sideline. If the defense jumps who can blame them when the offense line moves. To stop this the defense should go on any movement of the offensive line. This should be called a false start every time. It won't be but should be. I am one that also believes offensive linemen should not be able to shift like other positions. The reason is they can draw defenders to jump offsides more than other positions.

BamaMoon · Sep 20, 2014

B1GTide said:
I consider myself to be a pretty hardcore football fan. When watching my teams, I want to see a solid defensive effort. I would rather have one of my teams field a great defense than an even average offense. I sincerely believe that defenses win championships at all levels of the sport.

That said, if I am watching a game between two teams that I really don't support, I love a good shoot-out. I would love to see Clemson beat FSU with a score of 52-45 tonight. It would be a blast to watch.

When LSU beat Alabama 9-6 a few years ago the sentiment was almost unanimous - that the game was boring and almost impossible to watch. Only Alabama and LSU fans really appreciated that game - and it was a real gem. If all games were like that there would almost certainly be a decline in TV audiences.

I agree with you (and Earle) that the high scoring shootout is very entertaining. I think you are right, that if every game was like the Bama/LSU fg contest that the sport would be less entertaining to the general public.

You are also correct that defense wins championships. In past championship seasons we've held teams to as little as 10 points per game average for the season.

However, it's a new day and I think with the HUNH we'll have to be more realistic about giving up points.

I dont care if other teams don't care about defense just as long as Bama has one of the better ones and our offense is good enough to outscore these "run and shoot" teams when we play them!

Go Bama · Sep 20, 2014

Auburn linemen rarely put a hand on the ground before the ball is snapped. This is how they get away with so much movement.

Coach25 · Sep 20, 2014

Go Bama said:
Auburn linemen rarely put a hand on the ground before the ball is snapped. This is how they get away with so much movement.

I agree that I how they get by with it an it's within the rules, but to me set should be set.

Illegal motion question

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