Illegal motion question

teamplayer · Sep 18, 2014

I put this in the AU- k state game thread, but the game threads seem to be about quick posting and moving on.
Ok, serious question here- is it legal for the running back to be bouncing up and down and often moving toward the line of scrimmage before the snap? I have always thought it was illegal for the running back not to be set. Is that true? I know he isn't supposed to be able to move toward the line just prior to the snap. Why don't the officials call these fouls if they are indeed penalties? Someone help me with information please.

bamaga · Sep 18, 2014

all i can say is that all the linemen turning around or pointing and all the motion you see would be penalties years ago. I don't know why things are so lax now.

teamplayer · Sep 18, 2014

So those things should be penalties, yes?
If the rules aren't followed, they should get rid of them and put the little cushions along the out of bounds lines and just call it arena ball instead of acting like it is football.

BamaFlum · Sep 18, 2014

I believe if the linemen don't have a hand down, they can come back up if the movement doesn't mimic a football move. The backs must come set or be moving sideline to sideline or even backwards.

Did I get that right?

jthomas666 · Sep 18, 2014

BamaFlum said:
I believe if the linemen don't have a hand down, they can come back up if the movement doesn't mimic a football move. The backs must come set or be moving sideline to sideline or even backwards.

Did I get that right?

That sounds right.

dadleyblane5 · Sep 18, 2014

BamaFlum said:
I believe if the linemen don't have a hand down, they can come back up if the movement doesn't mimic a football move. The backs must come set or be moving sideline to sideline or even backwards.

Did I get that right?

That is correct...

Nolan · Sep 18, 2014

bamaga said:
all i can say is that all the linemen turning around or pointing and all the motion you see would be penalties years ago. I don't know why things are so lax now.

I see our OL doing it a little but there are times I'm watching other teams and I have to laugh at what is allowed. The offensive lineman are all over the place.

I'm especially bitter thinking about Arie's phantom false start on the made FG in last year's IB.

bama2112 · Sep 19, 2014

dadleyblane5 said:
That is correct...

You can only have one guy in motion at the time of the snap. They will have a rb and wr moving or the qb moving during the snap.

teamplayer · Sep 19, 2014

BamaFlum said:
I believe if the linemen don't have a hand down, they can come back up if the movement doesn't mimic a football move. The backs must come set or be moving sideline to sideline or even backwards.

Did I get that right?

See, this is what I'm wondering. Where are our rules experts? Can the backs jump up and down? I wish Coach Saban would have our backs start jumping as high as they can at times during a game we have in hand in order to prove a point. It's either legal, or it isn't.

Krymsonman · Sep 19, 2014

I'm no rules expert, but I do know you can have one person in motion at the snap, (usually RB or WR), and they must be going parallel to the line of scrimmage, not towards it. Moving towards the line at the snap is supposed to be a penalty. I also don't understand why they let linemen move so much lately. Even though the hand may not be down, they are basically in a set pass blocking position. They get up there, get set, then stand up to look at the play coming in from the sideline. In my mind, that's a motion penalty. Krymsonman

wsims74 · Sep 19, 2014

one of things that is rarely talked about that most HUNH teams get away with is not being set for a second at the snap especialy when a wide recever runs a route the play before... they rarely get back in time to just turn around and face the right way before it is snapped. Also, too many men in the backfield is missed a lot as well, but that one is talked about from time to time.

Bamabuzzard · Sep 19, 2014

The entire KState O line (on several occasions) shifted LONG after coming set. I'd never seen that before either. I was like "Isn't that a penalty?". But no flag was thrown. A lot of rules are being "bent" or "relaxed" to help these type offenses function. There's absolutely no arguing that.

TIDE-HSV · Sep 19, 2014

Bamabuzzard said:
The entire KState O line (on several occasions) shifted LONG after coming set. I'd never seen that before either. I was like "Isn't that a penalty?". But no flag was thrown. A lot of rules are being "bent" or "relaxed" to help these type offenses function. There's absolutely no arguing that.

They aren't deemed "set" until their hand hits the dirt, although they do have remain motionless for one second before the ball is snapped. The problem is, of course, that the officials are not being given enough time to judge that and that's the reason we're experimenting with the eight man crew. IIRC, Shaw said that the main reason for the experiment was the number of receivers a spread team can put out there, making it impossible to see all of them, but he also referenced giving the umpire a chance to peruse the field, which they can't do now, unless they make a mad dash. SS indicated that the umpire should get in position with a brisk jog, whatever that means. I think it carries with it that he doesn't want to see any more mad dashes, but, unless they make it a penalty, it's not going to stop the Malzahning...

Bamabuzzard · Sep 19, 2014

TIDE-HSV said:
They aren't deemed "set" until their hand hits the dirt, although they do have remain motionless for one second before the ball is snapped. The problem is, of course, that the officials are not being given enough time to judge that and that's the reason we're experimenting with the eight man crew. IIRC, Shaw said that the main reason for the experiment was the number of receivers a spread team can put out there, making it impossible to see all of them, but he also referenced giving the umpire a chance to peruse the field, which they can't do now, unless they make a mad dash. SS indicated that the umpire should get in position with a brisk jog, whatever that means. I think it carries with it that he doesn't want to see any more mad dashes, but, unless they make it a penalty, it's not going to stop the Malzahning...

Did you notice a few times last night Gus about busting a gut because the officials weren't spotting the ball fast enough. I wished one of them would have walked over there and told him "You can run your offense as fast as you want but we're not apart of your offense. Now shut up."

DocCrimson · Sep 19, 2014

Bamabuzzard said:
Did you notice a few times last night Gus about busting a gut because the officials weren't spotting the ball fast enough. I wished one of them would have walked over there and told him "You can run your offense as fast as you want but we're not apart of your offense. Now shut up."

If he gets bad enough about that, can they flag him for conduct?

TIDE-HSV · Sep 19, 2014

DocCrimson said:
If he gets bad enough about that, can they flag him for conduct?

I think he's stepped over the line (sometimes literally) a number of times. I think that they're afraid of the fallout and looking like they're on Saban and Bielema's side on tempo of play. Doesn't seem to bother the NFL refs, though...

BigBama76 · Sep 19, 2014

teamplayer said:
See, this is what I'm wondering. Where are our rules experts? Can the backs jump up and down? I wish Coach Saban would have our backs start jumping as high as they can at times during a game we have in hand in order to prove a point. It's either legal, or it isn't.

I'm with you. I'd like to know if a RB can dance up and down before the snap, especially when other players are in what I do understand is appropriate motion and no one seems to know the answer to that yet.

CaliforniaTide · Sep 19, 2014

BigBama76 said:
I'm with you. I'd like to know if a RB can dance up and down before the snap, especially when other players are in what I do understand is appropriate motion and no one seems to know the answer to that yet.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but I'd guess that the jumping up/down is the same as a player running a pre-snap motion and then stops in his place but keeps his feet moving.

TIDE-HSV · Sep 19, 2014

BigBama76 said:
I'm with you. I'd like to know if a RB can dance up and down before the snap, especially when other players are in what I do understand is appropriate motion and no one seems to know the answer to that yet.

I thought it had been answered above. The RB is prohibited from moving except parallel to the LOS. Also, two men cannot be in motion simultaneously ...

The Ols · Sep 19, 2014

The problem with the barn (one of the many) is the RB. When they spilt them out, then bring them back in to the backfield, they never set before the ball is snapped. If you watch them closely, they do this all of the time. It should be a penalty every time, yet I've never seen it called.

Illegal motion question

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