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seebell

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Tidewater said
but I seriously doubt any American government official would deliberately and with malice aforethought infect African civilians with a disease which will probably be lethal.
I am not into conspiracy theories either Tidewater, but the fact remains that our government and it's doctors and scientists have induced diseases and it remained secret for many years. Perhaps we are more enlightened now?

Apparently we infected South Americans with a potentially lethal disease.

http://swampland.time.com/2010/10/0...ntentionally-infecting-guatemalans-with-stds/

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Health and Human Services Director Kathleen Sebelius apologized today for a 1940s U.S. government program that intentionally infected Guatemalans with sexually transmitted diseases without their consent.

[U.S. Public Health Service Dr. John C.] Cutler and the other physicians chose men in the Guatemala National Penitentiary, then in an army barracks, and men and women in the National Mental Health Hospital for a total of 696 subjects. Permissions were gained from the authorities but not individuals, not an uncommon practice at the time, and supplies were offered to the institutions in exchange for access. The doctors used prostitutes with the disease to pass it to the prisoners (since sexual visits were allowed by law in Guatemalan prisons) and then did direct inoculations made from syphilis bacteria poured onto the men’s penises or on forearms and faces that were slightly abraded when the “normal exposure” produced little disease, or in a few cases through spinal punctures.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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I am not into conspiracy theories either Tidewater, but the fact remains that our government and it's doctors and scientists have induced diseases and it remained secret for many years. Perhaps we are more enlightened now?

Apparently we infected South Americans with a potentially lethal disease.

http://swampland.time.com/2010/10/0...ntentionally-infecting-guatemalans-with-stds/

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Health and Human Services Director Kathleen Sebelius apologized today for a 1940s U.S. government program that intentionally infected Guatemalans with sexually transmitted diseases without their consent.

[U.S. Public Health Service Dr. John C.] Cutler and the other physicians chose men in the Guatemala National Penitentiary, then in an army barracks, and men and women in the National Mental Health Hospital for a total of 696 subjects. Permissions were gained from the authorities but not individuals, not an uncommon practice at the time, and supplies were offered to the institutions in exchange for access. The doctors used prostitutes with the disease to pass it to the prisoners (since sexual visits were allowed by law in Guatemalan prisons) and then did direct inoculations made from syphilis bacteria poured onto the men’s penises or on forearms and faces that were slightly abraded when the “normal exposure” produced little disease, or in a few cases through spinal punctures.
Welcome to my world of conspiracy theories.
 

Tidewater

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I am not into conspiracy theories either Tidewater, but the fact remains that our government and it's doctors and scientists have induced diseases and it remained secret for many years. Perhaps we are more enlightened now?
Perhaps not.
Note the context of your Guatemalan case: the distinguishing characteristic of the progressive era was uncritical faith in the goodness of government bureaucracies, and that uncritical faith bred hubris. The 1960s-1970s brought that faith into severe, and I hope permanent, disrepute. Government in general merits continuous and critical examination.
Still, the final hedge still stands, unless such a program stays extremely close-hold, a potential whistle-blower would be (a) doing something right by blowing that whistle and (b) stand to make a great deal of money. Those two motivations together are quite powerful.
And why wouyld the US government deliberately infect Africans with a deadly disease that could well spill beyond that continent? What does the US government gain through an epidemic?
 

TIDE-HSV

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Perhaps not.
Note the context of your Guatemalan case: the distinguishing characteristic of the progressive era was uncritical faith in the goodness of government bureaucracies, and that uncritical faith bred hubris. The 1960s-1970s brought that faith into severe, and I hope permanent, disrepute. Government in general merits continuous and critical examination.
Still, the final hedge still stands, unless such a program stays extremely close-hold, a potential whistle-blower would be (a) doing something right by blowing that whistle and (b) stand to make a great deal of money. Those two motivations together are quite powerful.
And why wouyld the US government deliberately infect Africans with a deadly disease that could well spill beyond that continent? What does the US government gain through an epidemic?
Pirating their natural resources is what I usually hear...
 

seebell

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Perhaps not.
Note the context of your Guatemalan case: the distinguishing characteristic of the progressive era was uncritical faith in the goodness of government bureaucracies, and that uncritical faith bred hubris. The 1960s-1970s brought that faith into severe, and I hope permanent, disrepute. Government in general merits continuous and critical examination.
Still, the final hedge still stands, unless such a program stays extremely close-hold, a potential whistle-blower would be (a) doing something right by blowing that whistle and (b) stand to make a great deal of money. Those two motivations together are quite powerful.
And why wouyld the US government deliberately infect Africans with a deadly disease that could well spill beyond that continent? What does the US government gain through an epidemic?
I doubt that we have infected people with Ebola or anything else. Unfortunately episodes in our past lend themselves to propaganda which usually contains a modicum of truth.

I will leave it to DBF to find more recent cases of purposeful infection. Perhaps he will start with Lyme Disease and the Monsters of Plum Island?
 

Tidewater

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Pirating their natural resources is what I usually hear...
Yeah, I understand that, but, even if true, isn't that the status quo? Why rock the boat, especially with a gambit that could easily rebound on the US and kill a whole lot of people here, and Europe and Africa, etc.?
 

TIDE-HSV

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Yeah, I understand that, but, even if true, isn't that the status quo? Why rock the boat, especially with a gambit that could easily rebound on the US and kill a whole lot of people here, and Europe and Africa, etc.?
I never meant to intimate that it made good sense...
 

gmart74

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I will leave it to DBF to find more recent cases of purposeful infection. Perhaps he will start with Lyme Disease and the Monsters of Plum Island?
dont you remember the recent news about finding live viruses in a closet? biologists are morons. their stupidity is only outdone by their arrogance. of all the conspiracy theories, i would place my bets on plum island stupidity ranking above the others.
 

seebell

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dont you remember the recent news about finding live viruses in a closet? biologists are morons. their stupidity is only outdone by their arrogance. of all the conspiracy theories, i would place my bets on plum island stupidity ranking above the others.
No, I didn't remember. Thanks for the reminder.

http://thebulletin.org/smallpox-long-goodbye7321

These incidents raise doubts about government vigilance, with the case of the misplaced smallpox vials being arguably the most shocking, because the 1979 global eradication of smallpox is rightly celebrated as one of the most important public health achievements in history.
 

gmart74

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No, I didn't remember. Thanks for the reminder.

http://thebulletin.org/smallpox-long-goodbye7321

These incidents raise doubts about government vigilance, with the case of the misplaced smallpox vials being arguably the most shocking, because the 1979 global eradication of smallpox is rightly celebrated as one of the most important public health achievements in history.
the thing about plum island is that it was documented to have flooded twice, at least once they had an infection spread and they ended up killing an entire herd on the island, it is in the flight path of migratory birds, and deer have been known to swim to the island (i find that wild but evidently they actually can swim that far). Add all that up and is that really a place where you would want to study the most infectious animal diseases? and it just so happens by sheer coincidence lyme disease sprang up in lyme connecticut, which is pretty much the closest mainland point to the island.

i love me a conspiracy theory but hell, how many more facts do we need before occam's razor is put in effect?
 
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