Link: 'Beat Up Like a Drum' Hiring Kiffin, Saban Says Relationship Has 'Never Been Bad'

Bamabuzzard

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This is dead on and one thing that bothered me a bit about last year. We would have a bad offensive game and Coach would say that the players didn't execute. To me that totally removes the coaching element away from the game. It's basically saying all plays should work if they are executed perfectly, maybe it is true but I don't think it is either realistic or a good attitude. Last year at times we put the players in situations that it was too hard for them to execute.

I agree that Kiffin seems to be taking advantage of teams desire to stop our run game. Rather than just asserting that we will do what we do and it will work if we execute it probably we seem to be doing what the defense is susceptible to. Overall it just seems like we are doing what is easier rather than doing some set ideas that we believe in. As a result, the offense looks smoother to me and more dangerous.
To me Kiffin is doing (via the West Coast Offense) what the spread offenses do and that's force teams to legitimately defend the entire field. He attacks every part of the field, keeping defenses on the "defense" rather than being the aggressors. That has been the biggest difference in my eyes.
 

RollTide1224

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To me Kiffin is doing (via the West Coast Offense) what the spread offenses do and that's force teams to legitimately defend the entire field. He attacks every part of the field, keeping defenses on the "defense" rather than being the aggressors. That has been the biggest difference in my eyes.
I agree, as some others pointed out before the Florida game we had kind of showed a different way to beat a team offensively in every game that we had played thus far. In the Florida game we just added the deep passes to the equation. Now we have shown that we can be deadly on bubble screens, throw intermediate routes, and throw the deep ball. I guess the one thing still missing is hitting the middle of the field with the TE, but I'm sure that will come when the D makes an adjustment.

It just seems like we are playing one step ahead of the defense whereas with previous OCs I felt that the defense knew what we were doing and we didn't seem to care or adjust. Really I've seen more diversity out of the pass game this far into the season than I feel like I saw under Nuss. Our only deep shots were on hard play action fakes after we had crossed the 50 which seemed to become increasingly predictable.

Up to this point I've just been very pleased with what we have done so far. We really have seemed to avoid those long stagnant periods that plagued us in other years. I'm hopeful that we will be able to prevent them from coming, particularly against some of the HUNH teams we still have to face.
 

RollTide1224

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Another thing that I think has really helped our offense up to this point is Blake's mobility. I was hopeful before the season that whatever he lacked in arm (which I'm not sure is that much anymore) and experience on McCarron he could make up with the ability to run which AJ didn't have. Having watched it play out for these games so far I think it is obvious his running ability has been a huge benefit.

Last year if we called a pass play on first down and there was quick pressure AJ was rolling out and tossing it 60 yards out of bounds. When the same thing happens with Blake he might escape it and run for 4 yards. 2nd and 10 vs 2nd and 6 is a gigantic advantage for the offense comparatively. I think this ability has led to our higher 3rd down percentage rate as well. We are in better down and distances throughout the whole set and then on 3rd down Blake has the ability to scramble for it if they turn their back on him.

Connor Shaw was able to do this for the Gamecocks and win at an extremely high level. I can't recall the amount of times I saw Shaw keep a drive going with a key scramble. Those types of scrambles can totally demoralize a defense. Another advantage that it gives us is in the time of possession battle (which I refuse to believe isn't an important stat). Keeping drives going is going to be critical to us stopping the HUNH teams that we have to play later. If we continue to convert 3rd downs at the rate that we are doing now we are simply going to wear teams down exactly like what happened in the Florida game.
 

JustNeedMe81

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But did Shaw get hurt a lot.....
Another thing that I think has really helped our offense up to this point is Blake's mobility. I was hopeful before the season that whatever he lacked in arm (which I'm not sure is that much anymore) and experience on McCarron he could make up with the ability to run which AJ didn't have. Having watched it play out for these games so far I think it is obvious his running ability has been a huge benefit.

Last year if we called a pass play on first down and there was quick pressure AJ was rolling out and tossing it 60 yards out of bounds. When the same thing happens with Blake he might escape it and run for 4 yards. 2nd and 10 vs 2nd and 6 is a gigantic advantage for the offense comparatively. I think this ability has led to our higher 3rd down percentage rate as well. We are in better down and distances throughout the whole set and then on 3rd down Blake has the ability to scramble for it if they turn their back on him.

Connor Shaw was able to do this for the Gamecocks and win at an extremely high level. I can't recall the amount of times I saw Shaw keep a drive going with a key scramble. Those types of scrambles can totally demoralize a defense. Another advantage that it gives us is in the time of possession battle (which I refuse to believe isn't an important stat). Keeping drives going is going to be critical to us stopping the HUNH teams that we have to play later. If we continue to convert 3rd downs at the rate that we are doing now we are simply going to wear teams down exactly like what happened in the Florida game.
 

theballguy

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It's like some people don't understand delegation of authority.

I had a guy working on a graphic for me. He's not delivering. I'm the one calling the shots, he's supposed to do what I tell him, but here's the impasse. He can do what I can't do, and he won't do what I tell him to do. My resolution is to move on to someone else, which is exactly what Saban did.

He's not running the offense, even if he was an offensive coach, it would still be pretty rare to see him running the offense. So yes, all he can do is try to get the coordinator to run the style offense he wants, and in the manner he wants it. He's not at all in a position to sit down and draw up the plays, and then see to it those plays get called. Furthermore, there's a mile of difference between Saban knowing what types of plays he wants run, and drawing up the exact plays. The offensive coordinator is paid a lot of money to do that. I know what the graphic looks like, but I don't know how to create it myself.

Saban has to delegate, in regard to a lot of things. Sure, he interviews and hires a coordinator, but are some people here serious? You all know how the hiring process works, you never really know what you have until the person starts working for you! We've seen play calling questioned, we've seen Saban blow up on the sidelines, so this talk about oh, well I don't understand why he didn't do more or what not is silly. The coordinator is gone, he's been replaced, and Saban clearly wasn't happy with some of what he was doing. What else did you expect Saban to do? Fire a coordinator mid-season, cut back on recruiting and all his other duties and become offensive coordinator?

Edit: I'll also reiterate something I said at a few points last season. Saban wasn't able to take any real risks. He had to keep putting patches on the Alabama program. He has a lot of attrition, coaches leaving, players leaving, but he was on a run and very nearly a modern record. He had to keep trying to match his coaches with what he was doing the previous season, and match his players with what he was doing the previous season. So, yes he might not have been happy with the offense, he might not have been happy with the coordinator, but he really had limited options. Hiring a new coordinator, installing a new offense, that's a big risk.

I don't really know why people hold Saban to such ridiculous standards. Apparently he's supposed to run the offense in addition to everything else, while never losing a game, and I guess he has to take over scheduling and schedule nothing but tough games (which to reiterate he's not allowed to lose). Yeah, sure...

If you don't understand Saban's complaints, just read some of the posts here from alleged Alabama fans. You'd almost forget he won three national championships at Alabama.
Very well put, KrAzY3.
 

Alasippi

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To me Kiffin is doing (via the West Coast Offense) what the spread offenses do and that's force teams to legitimately defend the entire field. He attacks every part of the field, keeping defenses on the "defense" rather than being the aggressors. That has been the biggest difference in my eyes.
Buzzard, what I've seen sounds really almost too simple. First I agree with you. He definitely makes it harder to defend our offense. But the main thing I see is that he follows the old philosophy of "take what they give you".
He'll run the same play 25 times in a row if the defense doesn't make adjustments.
The one gripe I've had about our offense the past few years is that we often looked to diversify our playbook when there was no need to. We'd have a receiver catch three passes in the first half, absolutely wide open, and not even attempt a pass to that same receiver in the second half.
Or we'd be running the ball over and around opponents, and for some reason, start passing every down.
I still think the first offensive play we ran against Florida was an example of Kiffin's ability and a major example of, "take what they give you". Kiffin learned from the films that Florida covered the back out the backfield with a linebacker. Therefore, he starts our fastest running back and splits him wide.
Sure enough, they "gave us" the coverage we thought they would...and we "took what they gave us"..all the way to the end zone.
sip
 

Nolan

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CLK is better at keeping us out of "negative plays."

3rd and 1, 4th and 1...Iron Bowl...sound familiar?
 

BigBama76

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Should we reserve our disdain for coaching staff and players? We have fans here that claim two allegiances, who argue on behalf of other football programs, we also have fans here that don't claim to be Alabama fans at all, although this is an Alabama forum. I've read a lot of derogatory things about Sims and Kiffin on this forum. Now, if you think it's less appropriate for me to say something negative about that sort of thing, then for them to say something negative about a member of the Alabama program that's your decision. I judge people by their actions. Perhaps my wording could be better though I didn't call anyone out personally, but part of my statement was based on the fact that I don't really know if someone is truly a fan or not.
I've seen posts by non-Bama fans, not about Sims or Kiffin that I can recall, but if they don't claim to be Alabama fans they couldn't possibly be "alleged Alabama fans". On top of that the moderators seem to do a good job of dealing with troll fans.

As for fans with two allegiances I won't name monikers but I can think of several who post very positive and pertinent insight so what they think of Sims or Kiffin is their opinion and they've earned the right to post any way they like within reason.

I don't think I've posted anything derogatory about Sims or Kiffin but I have posted doubts about both, which for all I know could be considered derogatory by someone and I can assure you after 55 years and a graduate of The University of Alabama I am no "alleged fan".

As I said, the moderators do a good job of toning down derogatory type posts or posts that might be out-of-bounds so basically I think anyone in good standing on this forum should feel free to 'speak" their mind without being labeled "alleged", "bandwagon" or "sidewalk" fans whether I or anyone else agrees with them.

I'm not trying to beat you up about this because I've read many of your posts and find them to be cogent and thoughtful. I just get rankled when I start seeing or hearing fans being pigeonholed as XY or Z.
 

KrAzY3

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I've seen posts by non-Bama fans, not about Sims or Kiffin that I can recall, but if they don't claim to be Alabama fans they couldn't possibly be "alleged Alabama fans". On top of that the moderators seem to do a good job of dealing with troll fans...

I'm not trying to beat you up about this because I've read many of your posts and find them to be cogent and thoughtful. I just get rankled when I start seeing or hearing fans being pigeonholed as XY or Z.
I should put a disclaimer in my signature. I think I can tend to come off as directing my comments in a more personal manner than intended. For instance, I might quote someone, then go off on a tirade that isn't directed at them but just general sentiments. Generally speaking, I try to avoid making personal comments about others at all. If someone wants to discuss something, I usually try to stick to the subject matter and if they step over the line that's a moderator issue, not mine. And, I haven't raised any issue with a moderator in years...

So, I get how what I said might have come off as more direct or judgmental than I intended. It's not my place to go around dictating who is a "real" fan and who isn't, and in that sense what I said really was intended more along the lines of "and you call yourself a fan" type of remark. Also, that I don't necessarily want certain statements to be interpreted as something "Alabama fans are saying".

Having said that, my impersonal nature of interaction is such that I really don't remember a vast majority of the people I interact here. It's just a discussion, so I might talk to someone about something, or read it, then engage with them later and completely forget. I really don't tend to follow or care much about who is a fan or what team or what not.

Anyway, enough about me but generally speaking if something I said came off as especially pointed or as a personal insult, I probably didn't intend it to be that way.
 

RollTide1224

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But did Shaw get hurt a lot.....
He stayed banged up. However he also never lost a game at home and hardly lost at all. He was remarkably efficient with an offense with nowhere near the talent that Alabama has. I didn't mean to say that I want Sims running like Tebow did or anything but his ability to scramble does make us a more dangerous offensive unit.

I would also point out that Sims is a bit thicker than Shaw was IMO and furthermore AJ seemed to stay banged up almost his whole career and he hardly ever ran the ball.
 

Chukker Veteran

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I should put a disclaimer in my signature. I think I can tend to come off as directing my comments in a more personal manner than intended. For instance, I might quote someone, then go off on a tirade that isn't directed at them but just general sentiments. Generally speaking, I try to avoid making personal comments about others at all. If someone wants to discuss something, I usually try to stick to the subject matter and if they step over the line that's a moderator issue, not mine. And, I haven't raised any issue with a moderator in years...

So, I get how what I said might have come off as more direct or judgmental than I intended. It's not my place to go around dictating who is a "real" fan and who isn't, and in that sense what I said really was intended more along the lines of "and you call yourself a fan" type of remark. Also, that I don't necessarily want certain statements to be interpreted as something "Alabama fans are saying".

Having said that, my impersonal nature of interaction is such that I really don't remember a vast majority of the people I interact here. It's just a discussion, so I might talk to someone about something, or read it, then engage with them later and completely forget. I really don't tend to follow or care much about who is a fan or what team or what not.

Anyway, enough about me but generally speaking if something I said came off as especially pointed or as a personal insult, I probably didn't intend it to be that way.
Good post (although a bit wordy ;)) But sometimes what to do as a real fan can be not so simple. For example...(this isn't directed at any particular coach, just an example to make a point.)

Say you find yourself in the car riding with a Bama coach. (Never mind the circumstances, he could be recruiting your son, or giving you a ride across campus, or whatever...)

But when you get in the car, his body odor is overwhelming. I mean really awful. :biggrin:

Does the true fan say "I appreciate the ride, but have you ever considered trying out deodorant? It can be very useful."

Or does the true fan say "thanks for the ride," and pretend to not notice the odor? :)

We have the full range of fans here. Some can be over-critical, while others seem to think if a coach passes gas it smells like perfume.

I'm not trying to be critical of either approach, I alternate between the two extremes myself. But it takes fans of all kinds to make a full set, and we certainly have that full set here, which I consider a good thing for a discussion board.
 

JustNeedMe81

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Someone quickly break down the Ole Miss defense and what they like to do, and make a guess what Kiffin would do next weekend. Oh, someone read Kiffin-Saban lips on sideline please :)
 

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