Link: 'Beat Up Like a Drum' Hiring Kiffin, Saban Says Relationship Has 'Never Been Bad'

Bamabuzzard said:

I believe he wasn't at the mercy of the OC. That if he really wanted to open it up he would have made sure we did. Saban doesn't "beg" his staff to do something then if they don't just walk around saying "Golly gee I wish he would do what I tell him."

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It's like some people don't understand delegation of authority.

I had a guy working on a graphic for me. He's not delivering. I'm the one calling the shots, he's supposed to do what I tell him, but here's the impasse. He can do what I can't do, and he won't do what I tell him to do. My resolution is to move on to someone else, which is exactly what Saban did.

He's not running the offense, even if he was an offensive coach, it would still be pretty rare to see him running the offense. So yes, all he can do is try to get the coordinator to run the style offense he wants, and in the manner he wants it. He's not at all in a position to sit down and draw up the plays, and then see to it those plays get called. Furthermore, there's a mile of difference between Saban knowing what types of plays he wants run, and drawing up the exact plays. The offensive coordinator is paid a lot of money to do that. I know what the graphic looks like, but I don't know how to create it myself.

Saban has to delegate, in regard to a lot of things. Sure, he interviews and hires a coordinator, but are some people here serious? You all know how the hiring process works, you never really know what you have until the person starts working for you! We've seen play calling questioned, we've seen Saban blow up on the sidelines, so this talk about oh, well I don't understand why he didn't do more or what not is silly. The coordinator is gone, he's been replaced, and Saban clearly wasn't happy with some of what he was doing. What else did you expect Saban to do? Fire a coordinator mid-season, cut back on recruiting and all his other duties and become offensive coordinator?

Edit: I'll also reiterate something I said at a few points last season. Saban wasn't able to take any real risks. He had to keep putting patches on the Alabama program. He has a lot of attrition, coaches leaving, players leaving, but he was on a run and very nearly a modern record. He had to keep trying to match his coaches with what he was doing the previous season, and match his players with what he was doing the previous season. So, yes he might not have been happy with the offense, he might not have been happy with the coordinator, but he really had limited options. Hiring a new coordinator, installing a new offense, that's a big risk.

I don't really know why people hold Saban to such ridiculous standards. Apparently he's supposed to run the offense in addition to everything else, while never losing a game, and I guess he has to take over scheduling and schedule nothing but tough games (which to reiterate he's not allowed to lose). Yeah, sure...

If you don't understand Saban's complaints, just read some of the posts here from alleged Alabama fans. You'd almost forget he won three national championships at Alabama.

Maybe Coach Saban wanted Nuss and McElwain to 'open it up' more but they were hesitant to do it because of the greater risk of a bad play/mistake. Coach Saban isn't all that tolerant of mistakes so maybe they thought it better to play safe.

fundytide said:

Maybe Coach Saban wanted Nuss and McElwain to 'open it up' more but they were hesitant to do it because of the greater risk of a bad play/mistake. Coach Saban isn't all that tolerant of mistakes so maybe they thought it better to play safe.

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That's where you've got to have the moxie to go ahead and take that risk. Seems like maybe Kiffin's personality is best suited for the task after all.

It's more to it than that. Kiffin (with admission by Saban) knows how to create mismatches. I'm not sure our previous coordinators were as good at it.

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I disagree with this in regards to McElwain. IMO he was not appreciated as play caller and coordinator. He did a great job in utilizing the players he had with match ups. He maybe was a little protective of the QB we had at the time but creating favorable match ups was not a weakness by him.

Bamabuzzard said:

I don't buy the "I've been begging" previous OC's to open up the offense. Sorry coach. Don't buy that one. I would love for someone to go ask McElwain, Applewhite and Nuss to confirm what Saban said.

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For the past three or four years, CNS has been saying he wants to see more explosive plays from the offense. Also, in 2012 we passed the ball more than we ran the ball against LSU and TA&M (to questionable results). He specifically says in that article he likes it when we're not running the ball well and Lane doesn't "beat the dead horse." Me personally, I'm buying what he says. Remember he wanted CLK when he first arrived at the Capstone.

Bamabuzzard said:

I don't buy the "I've been begging" previous OC's to open up the offense. Sorry coach. Don't buy that one. I would love for someone to go ask McElwain, Applewhite and Nuss to confirm what Saban said.

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But apparently he then qualified the assertion:

He admitted, however, that the strengths of Alabama's personnel and the strong defense it had during its stretch of three national championships in four seasons catered to a run-heavy attack.

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Bamabuzzard said:

I believe he wasn't at the mercy of the OC. That if he really wanted to open it up he would have made sure we did. Saban doesn't "beg" his staff to do something then if they don't just walk around saying "Golly gee I wish he would do what I tell him."

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Maybe this explains why last season Saban was unable to instruct his agent Sexton to stop planting stories in the media about him going to Texas. He may have told him to knock it off, but Sexton just wouldn't listen.

"begging" is just a figure of speech meaning to add emphasis. It's not like he literally begged the OC's to do something.

CLK seems to be just the type of OC that he envisioned. It seems pretty simple to me.

Some on here seem to be seeing a lot more in the comments than I do.

I think some folks are taking his comments a bit too literal.
My take was that Coach S. was expressing a little frustration over the Kiffin questions that seem to be getting more and more frequent.
Nothing he said bothered me at all.
sip

Bamabuzzard said:

I don't buy the "I've been begging" previous OC's to open up the offense. Sorry coach. Don't buy that one. I would love for someone to go ask McElwain, Applewhite and Nuss to confirm what Saban said.

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Based on the context of his comments, I don't believe CNS is bashing previous OCs. I interpret his remarks as saying that (a) this is the kind of offense he wants to run; and (b) this is the first time he's had playmakers at all the positions in numbers sufficient to allow his OC to do it, the way an NFL team does (not that we're an NFL-caliber team, but that we have NFL-caliber balance to allow us run or throw on any given play based on what the defense does).

Saban also points out in that interview that Kiffin does a better job of avoiding plays that allow the defense an advantage. Last year you ran the ball on called run plays no matter how many defensive players were in the box. That is not happening this year (except when you are trying to keep them honest or run out the clock at the end of the game). It as like your offensive coordinator wanted to prove something when the only thing that he needed to do was score points.

Hard not to run it no matter the defense with the OL and backs Bama has had. I can remember CS saying we leaned on them all game in the running game and it finally wore them down. He must have meant in certain key situations the OC ran into a stacked deck; like maybe some situations last year.

KrAzY3 said:

I saw far more complaints about Kiffin's hiring here on this forum then I saw people saying he was a good hire. Far more. It's mostly Alabama fans here, right? So, if this was any indicator, yes, Saban got a lot of complaints.

May be it was the overall mood after the Auburn and Oklahoma losses, but I was in the minority when defending Kiffin and Sims. Under appreciated? Spoiled... close enough. Fans expectations have become not only to demand results, but to demand they approve of the method in which the team goes about getting them.

But... the idea that anyone here who saw the outcry can act as though Saban didn't catch a lot of flack over the hire is just ridiculous. No, it wasn't as bad as what Blake Sims supporters got here, but it was close enough that you still might get mocked a bit for suggesting Kiffin might actually be good at his job.

I'm not sure how insufferable fans understand they can be, while in the midst of being insufferable. But, I saw how exasperated some got over Blake Sims, how merely suggesting that yes he really can throw the deep ball could prompt a page full of responses to the contrary (even without any facts to back that argument up). He's not that fast, he somehow shrunk, bla bla bla, once people get emotional they get irrational. And, Kiffin got some of that sort of thing to. This is just a forum, we're just fans, imagine how that sort of thing could be if you're the head coach making decisions?

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Somehow I don't think CNS pays a whole lot of attention to fan forums and his comments were pretty clear he was talking about the media.

As for Kiffin and Blake Sims, 4 games doesn't a season make. I'll withhold judgement, for what that's worth, after the season's over on both those decisions.

Personally I'm a hopefully optimistic type fan mainly because I think it's a jinx to brag too much about what we have done and correlating that to what we will do.

KrAzY3 said:

If you don't understand Saban's complaints, just read some of the posts here from alleged Alabama fans. You'd almost forget he won three national championships at Alabama.

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I always have a problem with people using the words "alleged Alabama fans" by another fan. Nobody has an inherit right to make that statement to another fan no matter what the disputed issue is. Argue points all you want that's what a forum is about but leave the disdain for others out of it. JMO.

I think this is part of CNS process or plan if you will. The media is focusing on a coordinator ( Lane Kiffin ) and he and CNS relationship or lack of. Saban can address the areas of concern his has about the team or areas they players need to improve on, and never mention a special player or coach by name. The media stopped asking about who is the starting QB, so instead of letting the media dig something up, he brings up Kiffin saying that the media said there was a problem between Kiffin and Saban and now they are back in "Love" . CNS never knew he had a problem with Kiffin before the media brought it up. That was one of the funniest things Saban has said in a PC. If you for one minute don't thing that CNS has someone reading everything that is written or published about his football team in print form or on the internet go back and watch his PC from yesterday. I think he uses the media just like CPB did in his day to get his point across and his agenda met. And don't you think for one minute he doesn't have a media plan. I might be all wrong here but you members who are in management and media relations. What is your opinion of how CNS is using the media to meet his own agenda and get his point across to players, fans and last but not least the media?

IIRC, there were more than few posts on here concerning LK's track record, both as a QB coach and as an OC, in essence stating that he had the credentials to justify the hire. Those on here who didn't like him personally (I was one but was purposefully ambivalent but hopeful about the hire) couldn't really argue the creds, all they could do was state the reasons they disliked LK. I think honestly most Bama fans did up until that point, and some may still.
However, CNS was going after the media, and the media didn't like LK (and many still don't) and let it be known to the world that it was a bad hire. I will revert back to a post I made in another thread about an analyst publicly (on TV) blaming LK for the first half turnovers last Saturday.
CNS knows what he is doing, and I don't think for a second he browbeats his assistants because of their play calling. JMO, but I think CNS figures that if they're going to do it and it doesn't work (at least to his satisfaction), they won't be around long, and there's no sense in making a big deal out of it, for a lot of reasons. (How many OC's has he had at Bama?)
Bama has the best HC in the country, and we won't have him forever, so we should enjoy it while it lasts.

To clarify my attitude towards Saban, it is grounded in how I regarded Stallings. I quickly developed an entitled attitude after Alabama won the championship. I was young enough, and knew enough about how great Alabama football was, that I thought that was just how it was supposed to be. In fact, I thought you were supposed to just keep winning championships, I mean that was what Alabama did, right? So, by the time Stallings left, I was fine with his leaving, after all his replacement would be as good, heck, the offense might even be better! I learned my lesson.

When a coach has performed like Saban has, I'm resigned to the fact that he not only knows better how to do this job than I, but than pretty much everyone else on the planet.

Bamabuzzard said:

I find it very hard to believe the OC would then basically go out there and not do it or at least make an attempt at it. Maybe it was his choice of words but with the "I've begged" statement it painted a picture of something that I simply cannot believe.

But either way it doesn't matter. We've won three titles with offenses Saban wasn't necessarily pleased with. So do we really have problems? No.

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First, to the begging part, aren't we arguing semantics? My mother used to say she was sick and tired of things all the time, when she didn't seem particularly tired or sick.

I don't think Saban has been universally unhappy with his coordinators, but he hasn't been completely happy either. He wanted Kiffin before, I believe he showed interest in Jimbo, clearly Applewhite was a quick fix. I don't know what the issues with Nuss were, but I suspect that a lot of what he had to say had to do with that. I mean, he did bring in Kiffin while Nuss was still there, and with the way Nuss left, it certainly made it seem like the two were not seeing eye to eye. So, to me it really seemed like he wasn't getting what he wanted out of Nuss. That doesn't mean Nuss was a bad coach, but Nuss called the plays and Saban apparently didn't like the plays he was calling. I guess it's as simple as that. That doesn't even mean Nuss did a bad job or was a bad coordinator, but I guess they weren't on the same page and that's important to.

BigBama76 said:

Somehow I don't think CNS pays a whole lot of attention to fan forums and his comments were pretty clear he was talking about the media.

As for Kiffin and Blake Sims, 4 games doesn't a season make. I'll withhold judgement, for what that's worth, after the season's over on both those decisions.

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I don't think he was talking about us on the forums either (although he did make a pretty pointed comment before about not caring what people thought about the QB situation which seemed directed at fans), but my point was if we as Alabama fans, and a fairly well behaved bunch at that... were behaving that way, then of course he had to have put up with a lot of crap over the Kiffin hire.

I am cautiously optimistic. Alabama could still lose a couple games, that offense could still fall apart, but I do think we've seen enough to say that they are not bad guys for the job. They may or may not have what it takes to win a championship, they may or may not be better than the AJ/Nuss combination, but my opinion is more along the lines of they're not undeserving of their current position.

BigBama76 said:

I always have a problem with people using the words "alleged Alabama fans" by another fan. Nobody has an inherit right to make that statement to another fan no matter what the disputed issue is. Argue points all you want that's what a forum is about but leave the disdain for others out of it. JMO.

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Should we reserve our disdain for coaching staff and players? We have fans here that claim two allegiances, who argue on behalf of other football programs, we also have fans here that don't claim to be Alabama fans at all, although this is an Alabama forum. I've read a lot of derogatory things about Sims and Kiffin on this forum. Now, if you think it's less appropriate for me to say something negative about that sort of thing, then for them to say something negative about a member of the Alabama program that's your decision. I judge people by their actions. Perhaps my wording could be better though I didn't call anyone out personally, but part of my statement was based on the fact that I don't really know if someone is truly a fan or not.

B1GTide said:

Saban also points out in that interview that Kiffin does a better job of avoiding plays that allow the defense an advantage. Last year you ran the ball on called run plays no matter how many defensive players were in the box. That is not happening this year (except when you are trying to keep them honest or run out the clock at the end of the game). It as like your offensive coordinator wanted to prove something when the only thing that he needed to do was score points.

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This is dead on and one thing that bothered me a bit about last year. We would have a bad offensive game and Coach would say that the players didn't execute. To me that totally removes the coaching element away from the game. It's basically saying all plays should work if they are executed perfectly, maybe it is true but I don't think it is either realistic or a good attitude. Last year at times we put the players in situations that it was too hard for them to execute.

I agree that Kiffin seems to be taking advantage of teams desire to stop our run game. Rather than just asserting that we will do what we do and it will work if we execute it probably we seem to be doing what the defense is susceptible to. Overall it just seems like we are doing what is easier rather than doing some set ideas that we believe in. As a result, the offense looks smoother to me and more dangerous.

Bamabuzzard said:

I don't know for a fact but it only makes sense seeing that the media is a lot more visible and easy to see and hear than individual fans. Most fans do not have a national platform like journalists that is easily seen. Also, the media are the ones who've been asking perpetual questions about it directly to Coach Saban since he made the hire, not the fans.

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I agree and to an extent this happened with the QB situation too. In all their courage they say it comes from the fans.