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Coaches on the hot seat

Who is going to be looking for a new job by the end of the year?

  • Total voters
    109
  • Poll closed .
TideFan in AU

TideFan in AU

Hall of Fame
Oct 21, 2004
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Almost close enough to the pasture to smell it!
B1GTide said:
I was watching the game - this is not what happened in real time - it is revisionist history provided to us by the media. I don't like Michigan at all, so I can't believe that I am defending Hoke here.

On the play in which Morris was concussed (looks like he probably was), he laid on the field for about 3 seconds after taking a vicious hit (which drew a personal foul penalty). He then popped up and looked fine in real time. You slow it down and he looks woozy, but in real time, while watching the game, it was far from clear that he had been concussed.

On the next play Morris threw a bullet that was not caught by his receiver. After the play he looked like he was out of sorts even though he had not been touched. Hoke pulled him immediately and he went over to the trainer who took his helmet and started talking to him. Gardener came in at QB.

Gardener ran three plays and then his helmet came off on a run. Morris went back into the game for one play, a handoff, and then pulled. The trainer gave him his helmet back. The camera crews were following the 3rd string QB as he attempted to find his helmet, but that was inconsequential as Morris went onto the field immediately. He ran the play, then Gardener went back in and Morris never saw the field again. Someone took away his helmet for the rest of the game.

Now, I have no idea why the trainer gave Morris his helmet for that play. In today's college football, the trainers and medical staff make these decisions, not the coaches. So it might have been on Hoke that he let him play a single play immediately after the hit, but the other play that he ran is on the medical staff, IMO.

Most of this story is written with the advantage of slow motion cameras and multiple camera angles. Also, the head coach is coaching the game, not watching any specific player on every play. To assume that Hoke knew that he was injured and left him in is typical of the media. Makes for a story that people will read and react to. But it does not reflect the reality of the situation as it played out on the field.
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I don't know what the heck you are seeing, but it doesn't take a slow motion camera to see that he couldn't hardly stand up after that hit. If it is wasn't for him grabbing hold to an O Lineman, he would have fell down. It looked like he was hurt in real time and I can't believe somebody on the Michigan sideline didn't notice it. The announcer was even calling it real time before they ever even slowed the replay.
 
Tide1986

Tide1986

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I've watched the video and tend to agree with B1G. For play after play, Morris was hobbling around due to a hurt leg. I couldn't tell if he was groggy from a big hit or if he was still favoring a leg that was obviously in pain. If anyone is going to criticize Hoke, he should be criticized for leaving in a QB with a hurt leg and making him an easy target as a result.

Related question, should the Alabama head coach have been fired for putting a punter, Lane Bearden, out on the field with a torn up knee?
 
B1GTide

B1GTide

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TideFan in AU said:
I don't know what the heck you are seeing, but it doesn't take a slow motion camera to see that he couldn't hardly stand up after that hit. If it is wasn't for him grabbing hold to an O Lineman, he would have fell down. It looked like he was hurt in real time and I can't believe somebody on the Michigan sideline didn't notice it. The announcer was even calling it real time before they ever even slowed the replay.
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I ask you the same question - do you believe that Hoke knew that Morris was concussed and decided to leave him in the game? You see no other possibility? Like, perhaps, that Hoke only saw a vicious hit on his QB but could not tell from his vantage point that the QB had been hit in the chin. He then saw his QB get up and wave off the sideline. Was he wobbly - yes - especially on TV, but if you have ever watched a game from the sideline you know that you do not see the same things from the sideline that you see on your TV.

IMO, this really comes down to a single question. Do you trust the head coach or not. If you do, then you assume that he really does have the best interests of his players at heart. You don't treat something like this as proof that he does not. You try to put what you have seen into context.

Hoke has never been accused of not caring for his players by anyone, but people now want him fired for this play. That is crazy.
 
B1GTide

B1GTide

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CullmanTide said:
Don't even begin to put words in my mouth. I didn't say he was a bad person but he a stupid decision that put a kids health and possibly life in danger.
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Only a bad person would do this on purpose. You seem to be suggesting that he did this on purpose, knowing that Morris was injured.

Watch the entire game. Morris spent most of the game limping after taking hit after hit after hit.
 
C

CullmanTide

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B1GTide said:
Only a bad person would do this on purpose. You seem to be suggesting that he did this on purpose, knowing that Morris was injured.

Watch the entire game. Morris spent most of the game limping after taking hit after hit after hit.
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You obviously have your mind made up that what he did was okay.
 
B1GTide

B1GTide

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CullmanTide said:
You obviously have your mind made up that what he did was okay.
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No - I just watch football from a different point of view, I guess.

I believe that most football coaches get into coaching for the right reasons - love of the sport and love of the team. Sure, the best make a boat load of money, but most football coaches work for next to nothing. I know that there are some bad apples out there - coaches who are totally self-absorbed and who care more for their own success than any particular program or player, but they are in the minority in my experience.

So, my starting point when I see events like this is trust in the coach. Not trust that the coach is always right, but trust that the coach is trying to do the right things for the right reasons. Did Hoke make a mistake here? Obviously. But did he do so intentionally? I really doubt it.

Now, you could make the argument that he should have known and that would create an interesting discussion. He had men in the booth with access to that play on TV monitors. Someone on his staff should have recognized the signs and got word down to the sidelines. Did that happen? I really hope not, because if it did then you are right and Hoke needs to be fired. But until I hear that Hoke knew what is obvious to us on the replay, I will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
T

TouchThatThang

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TideFan in AU said:
Speaking for me - I believe what I have believed for a while - the guy is in over his head and is incompetent.
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I agree. I doubt he would knowingly jeopardize his players' safety. He simply doesn't make sound decisions or think clearly under pressure. His judgment and awareness probably took a big hit when he looked up at the scoreboard.

edit: The players around Morris when he nearly fell over should've said something to the coach. They knew something was wrong but they didn't speak up. Not saying they're to blame, but they could've helped the situation.
 
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M

MemphisBamaDude

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B1GTide said:
I ask you the same question - do you believe that Hoke knew that Morris was concussed and decided to leave him in the game? You see no other possibility? Like, perhaps, that Hoke only saw a vicious hit on his QB but could not tell from his vantage point that the QB had been hit in the chin. He then saw his QB get up and wave off the sideline. Was he wobbly - yes - especially on TV, but if you have ever watched a game from the sideline you know that you do not see the same things from the sideline that you see on your TV.

IMO, this really comes down to a single question. Do you trust the head coach or not. If you do, then you assume that he really does have the best interests of his players at heart. You don't treat something like this as proof that he does not. You try to put what you have seen into context.

Hoke has never been accused of not caring for his players by anyone, but people now want him fired for this play. That is crazy.
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But you're saying that the only reason to find fault with Hoke is if we think he's a bad person and did this on purpose. I disagree. I find fault with him, whether he did this in purpose or whether he didn't notice that his qb was fairly hobbled and possibly concussed after taking a massive hit. I been on the sidelines for high school football and I understand that one doesn't have the same viewpoint that one might while watching at home. But that's why coaches have very large staffs and medical teams. The quarterback is the most important position on the field, and to think that the head coach doesn't know when something is wrong with the qb is ridiculous. No, I don't think Hoke is a bad person but I do think he and his staff were very negligent in this situation. Add to that the fact that they didn't even have the gumption to get the third qb ready, just in case, after Gardner went in. I agree with an early person, Hoke is in over his head.
 
C

CullmanTide

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Ultimately, a players well being is the head coaches responsibility. He failed miserably. I'm just thankful the young man didn't absorb another hit after going in.
 
P

pigsinspace

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If the Michigan QB had a concussion and was left in the game, then it becomes more of a public relations issue for the administrators. If it starts to look too bad for the school, then Hoke will not finish the season.
 
CrimsonNagus

CrimsonNagus

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After watching that video then I'd say yes, Hoke knowingly left an injured played in the game. If the NCAA is really serious about all this player safety stuff then they need to suspend Hoke for a game, if he still has a job.
 
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TexasBama

TexasBama

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pigsinspace said:
If the Michigan QB had a concussion and was left in the game, then it becomes more of a public relations issue for the administrators. If it starts to look too bad for the school, then Hoke will not finish the season.
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Exactly. This greases the skids (along with the worst start in history).
 
B1GTide

B1GTide

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CullmanTide said:
Ultimately, a players well being is the head coaches responsibility. He failed miserably. I'm just thankful the young man didn't absorb another hit after going in.
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I agree with this completely - still his responsibility and if he is fired because he just doesn't have tight enough control over this type of risk, I would not argue the point.
 
bamaga

bamaga

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Tide1986 said:
I've watched the video and tend to agree with B1G. For play after play, Morris was hobbling around due to a hurt leg. I couldn't tell if he was groggy from a big hit or if he was still favoring a leg that was obviously in pain. If anyone is going to criticize Hoke, he should be criticized for leaving in a QB with a hurt leg and making him an easy target as a result.

Related question, should the Alabama head coach have been fired for putting a punter, Lane Bearden, out on the field with a torn up knee?
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That was a little different. He was cleared by a doctor if he could tolerate the pain. I do understand the concern for putting a player on the field that couldn't defend himself . But a punter , even one as tough as lane , get very few hits . In reality, we just played with 10 on most punts .



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