Link: D.J. Pettway story of returning to Alabama.

KrAzY3

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This is why:

"He'd sustained a concussion, beaten so badly that one of his attackers thought they'd accidentally killed him. They kicked him just to make sure he was alive."

A concussion is brain damage.
I read what they said, and more than just that of course. I even took pains to explain a situation in which I rendered someone unconscious and for a moment had the same types of concern. However, if you really want to argue that a (minor) concussion is attempted manslaughter (it's not serious brain damage either fortunately), then boxers are guilty of attempted manslaughter over and over in their career and ironically Pettway has probably had a few people try to kill him in his football career as well. A concussion simply doesn't equate directly to an attempt to kill someone, or being near death, and to draw that comparison is to exaggerate.

Here is a quote about exactly what happened: "cuts to the victim's face, a mild concussion and severe swelling". That is serious, that is a crime, that is inexcusable, but that is nowhere near death! Period.

I do not want to make light of what happened though! But, the leap to almost dying, trying to kill him, accessory to attempted manslaughter and such simply isn't backed up by what we know.

Let me give an example of one situation which was completely mishandled. While at Florida, Aaron Herhandez violently assaulted someone in a bar, caused a burst eardrum, and the Florida team was supposed to handle it internally (seriously) and I'm not even aware of any punishment. That's clearly, clearly not how you handle a player violently assaulting someone else.

In this instance though, Eddie Williams in particular seems to have flipped out. Remember, the day before he was found with a pistol, and probably knew his time at Alabama was over. I got in a car once with a guy who I didn't realize was flipping out because his girlfriend had broken up with him, and it turned out to be a really, really bad idea. Did Pettway know what was going on with Eddie? Eddie, applied for youthful offender status to, not just Pettway, Eddie was denied. The evidence seems to clearly spell out that Eddie flipped out, and based on how the authorities handled it, he was considered one of the main aggressors. Once again, this doesn't excuse Pettway, but it does create a very plausible scenario, in which he's tagging along with a guy who has flipped out and isn't behaving in a rational manner. You don't necessarily even know that until you're knee deep in crazy, I've been there before.

I can't excuse or defend Pettway's actions. He deserved to be punished. The thing is, he was. I don't see cause for exaggerating what happened, and I don't see cause for trying to treat his role as being equal to Eddie or even Tyler's when it doesn't appear to be the case. In this instance, four different parties saw cause to giving him a degree of forgiveness. The victim, the authorities, the University, and Alabama football. I'm not defending Pettyway's actions, I don't think anyone should, but I am deferring to the wisdom of people who know more of the situation than I.
 
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bamaga

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I will make a comment and then get out of this conversation-

That was a brutal assault. In my opinion, it is too soon for DJ to be accepted back on campus.
 

Catfish

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In this instance though, Eddie Williams in particular seems to have flipped out. Remember, the day before he was found with a pistol, and probably knew his time at Alabama was over. I got in a car once with a guy who I didn't realize was flipping out because his girlfriend had broken up with him, and it turned out to be a really, really bad idea. Did Pettway know what was going on with Eddie? Eddie, applied for youthful offender status to, not just Pettway, Eddie was denied. The evidence seems to clearly spell out that Eddie flipped out, and based on how the authorities handled it, he was considered one of the main aggressors. Once again, this doesn't excuse Pettway, but it does create a very plausible scenario, in which he's tagging along with a guy who has flipped out and isn't behaving in a rational manner. You don't necessarily even know that until you're knee deep in crazy, I've been there before.
So, you're saying somebody may have flipped out? :biggrin2:
 

Con

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Did DJ Pettway beat this guy or just not stop the guys that did? Like Krazy said it doesn't excuse his actions or lack of actions, but how may times have we seen our friends do stupid things that we didn't step in and say this is not a good idea. Maybe his best course of action was to just not be hanging out with the other guys and just walked on home.
 

mdb-tpet

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I'm with Krazy on this one. If Pettway is really guilty of not much more than standing around and watching the beating, then his year away from Alabama is quite a punishment. You can't tell me that every frat guy who watches his friends beat a guy or two up one night should be banned from campus for life. Should they get some kind of penalty. Yes. Community service? Counseling? A semester away from school to get their head right? Sure. Lifetime banishment. No. That's ridiculous. I've been with some loose cannons before, and I understand feeling stunned amazement at what was going on. Pettway was vetted in the legal system, by the school, and by our coach. Have your opinion, but realize life is truly not black and white in actions and consequences.

Finally, there's a whole field of study in the normalcy bias (see here for some interesting reading, as many of you don't seem to have knowledge of cognitive biases) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases.
 

Go Bama

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I suspect someone missed a diagnosis.

Concussions are graded as mild (grade 1), moderate (grade 2), or severe (grade 3), depending on such factors as loss of consciousness, amnesia, and loss of equilibrium.

In a grade 1 concussion, symptoms last for less than 15 minutes. There is no loss of consciousness.

With a grade 2 concussion, there is no loss of consciousness but symptoms last longer than 15 minutes.

In a grade 3 concussion, the person loses consciousness, sometimes just for a few seconds.

The article stated he lost consciousness and a state of confusion.

But the crux of the matter is that Pettway at least witnessed a serious crime, then stayed with the group while they committed another. He should finish school somewhere else and play for someone else IF these are the facts. That would be his second chance. Unless someone produces evidence that Pettway did try to stop these crimes, or he turned the others in, I can't change my opinion that he should not be enrolled at the U of Alabama.
 

CrimsonForce

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I suspect someone missed a diagnosis.

Concussions are graded as mild (grade 1), moderate (grade 2), or severe (grade 3), depending on such factors as loss of consciousness, amnesia, and loss of equilibrium.

In a grade 1 concussion, symptoms last for less than 15 minutes. There is no loss of consciousness.

With a grade 2 concussion, there is no loss of consciousness but symptoms last longer than 15 minutes.

In a grade 3 concussion, the person loses consciousness, sometimes just for a few seconds.

The article stated he lost consciousness and a state of confusion.

But the crux of the matter is that Pettway at least witnessed a serious crime, then stayed with the group while they committed another. He should finish school somewhere else and play for someone else IF these are the facts. That would be his second chance. Unless someone produces evidence that Pettway did try to stop these crimes, or he turned the others in, I can't change my opinion that he should not be enrolled at the U of Alabama.
Details about DJ can't be released because of his youthful offender status as it relates to this incident. It's fine if you don't have faith that the UofA, Coach Saban, and the STUDENT panel that allowed him to come back did their due diligence and are satisfied with the price DJ paid..
 

TideMom2Boys

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I may not agree with him being on the team....but I do hope that he has turned his life around. He is a member of the team...so I will support him on the field.




I feel horrible for the poor kid this happened to. My heart breaks for him.
 
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dirtroadlizard

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I ran into a guy before the FIU game wearing a Pettway jersey . I asked him if he was related to D.J. and he replied , yes , he was D.J.'s dad . He looked kind of cautious of my reaction . I stuck my hand out and told him I was glad to see D.J. back on the team . I could see the relief on his face as he shook my hand and thanked me . I trust Coach Saban to do what is right on and off the field .
 

Go Bama

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Details about DJ can't be released because of his youthful offender status as it relates to this incident. It's fine if you don't have faith that the UofA, Coach Saban, and the STUDENT panel that allowed him to come back did their due diligence and are satisfied with the price DJ paid..
It's unfair to say I don't have faith in the University of Alabama. I love the school.

I think someone made a wrong decision. I'm all for DJ getting his life turned around.

Samuel Jergens was severely beaten and robbed. My concern is much more for his healing process than for Alabama football.
 

CrimsonForce

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It's unfair to say I don't have faith in the University of Alabama. I love the school.

I think someone made a wrong decision. I'm all for DJ getting his life turned around.

Samuel Jergens was severely beaten and robbed. My concern is much more for his healing process than for Alabama football.
Samuel Jergens is doing just fine. Be forward looking at the new narrative of DJ thriving with his second chance and turning his life around so Samuel can move on with his life instead of hearing about he was beaten every time this is brought up. If you question Coach Saban and the administrations decision you are really questioning their integrity. This wasn't a simple decision. They put a lot of thought into their logic..
 
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Chukker Veteran

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But the crux of the matter is that Pettway at least witnessed a serious crime, then stayed with the group while they committed another. He should finish school somewhere else and play for someone else IF these are the facts. That would be his second chance. Unless someone produces evidence that Pettway did try to stop these crimes, or he turned the others in, I can't change my opinion that he should not be enrolled at the U of Alabama.
That is one of the things I'm most struggling with. I haven't decided whether I think he should be on the team or not, but I'm inclined to cut Saban some slack and focus on the up side, and hope for the best.
 

Go Bama

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Samuel Jergens is doing just fine. Be forward looking at the new narrative of DJ thriving with his second chance and turning his life around so Samuel can move on with his life instead of hearing about he was beaten every time this is brought up. If you question Coach Saban and the administrations decision you are really questioning their integrity. This wasn't a simple decision. They put a lot of thought into their logic..
So every time I disagree with someone I question their integrity? That's baloney. You're guessing about Jergens and hoping you're right. How he is doing is a question only he and time can answer. The whole issue should have been handled by the administration way before it got to Coach Saban. Jergens wouldn't be hearing about this nearly as often if DJ were at another school.

I don't have any problem with CNS trying to help DJ straighten himself out. If he can great. It's not the way I would have handled the situation. I have great admiration and respect for CNS. He's a role model. He's not always right.

I hope everyone comes out a better person for having lived through the ordeal. I'm just trying to justify in my mind how I would feel if this had happened to my son.
 

Alasippi

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I normally have a strong opinion on everything, right or wrong.
This one, I simply don't know enough about the "inside" facts, that none of us know about, even after the article.
It's an extremely tough situation, because..
(1) No kid should ever get beaten like this. Totally unacceptable ...and
(2) Kids can sometimes be involved in criminal situations where they weren't really a participant in the actual crime...
I'll just say this...
If the facts showed that D.J. was an intentional participant, I think the University, and Coach Saban, would have kicked his butt so far off campus that we'd never see him again.
You have to remember, the players we said "So Long" to, were much higher rated prospects than D.J.
sip
 

TideFan in AU

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Like others I have a lot of mixed emotions and opinions on this matter.

D.J. was given an opportunity to earn a second chance and did what it took to earn it. I do believe that Coach Saban is trying to do what is in the best interests of him, the rest of the players and the entire program. I am just not convinced that it is best that he should have returned to Alabama.

Tyler Hayes and Brent Calloway both got second chances at other places. Last I heard Calloway was still trying to find his way back to Alabama too. Eddie Williams apparently didn't do what was needed to get one.
DJ was the only player of the 4 that even had the chance to come back. Williams, Hayes, nor Calloway were offered a chance to come back. That is telling as well.

On the matter of DJ being allowed to come back only because his athletic ability, ask yourself this: Where do we need talent more? Eddie Williams and Landon Collins would likely be the most feared duo of safeties in all of CFB. He was a 5 star #1 ranked Safety coming out of HS and 11th best player overall. If Saban just cared about having talent, don't you think he would have been back as well? There was a big difference in the roles of the guys that were involved in that horrible event, and there's a reason why DJ was the only one given the chance to come back IMO.
 

KrAzY3

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I don't want to continue a line of debate that questions the severity of what happened to the victim. It was bad, and it was inexcusable. What I haven't seen posted here is Nick Saban's explanation, which I think also shines some light on why it was handled this way:

“The university made some things that this particular guy (D.J. Pettway) could do and if he did all those things, they would look at letting him back in school. Based on what he did, based on his punishment and penalty, and based on what was required for him to go through a series of things, the university would make a decision to let him back in school, which he wanted to come back. He did all of those things. The university made a decision that he could come back. We made a decision that we wanted him back. We know D.J. Pettway very well. He certainly made a mistake in terms of what he did. We felt that this one person, because he did the things he was required to do, deserved a second chance.”

“D.J. was never a bad guy when he was here. We never had a lot of problems with him before. He did make a horrible decision to be involved with this incident but his involvement and the severity of his punishment was based on his involvement. Those are the guidelines that were set for him to get an opportunity to come back.”

 

CullmanTide

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I will make a comment and then get out of this conversation-

That was a brutal assault. In my opinion, it is too soon for DJ to be accepted back on campus.
This is my favorite post in the entire thread, simple, honest, to the point and didn't insult any other poster. I agree with you 100%.
 

CrimsonForce

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So every time I disagree with someone I question their integrity? That's baloney. You're guessing about Jergens and hoping you're right. How he is doing is a question only he and time can answer. The whole issue should have been handled by the administration way before it got to Coach Saban. Jergens wouldn't be hearing about this nearly as often if DJ were at another school.

I don't have any problem with CNS trying to help DJ straighten himself out. If he can great. It's not the way I would have handled the situation. I have great admiration and respect for CNS. He's a role model. He's not always right.

I hope everyone comes out a better person for having lived through the ordeal. I'm just trying to justify in my mind how I would feel if this had happened to my son.
Not in every case, but in this situation yes..
 

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