These kind of brutal assaults and people who carry them out have no place on a college campus. As far as I'm concerned we have no room to criticize FSU (re: Jameis Winston) because we've abandoned the moral high ground on this issue. I'm not sure what world most people live in but second chances aren't guaranteed in life.
Link: D.J. Pettway story of returning to Alabama.
- Thread starter Bamabuzzard
- Start date
If he wasn't playing for us he would playing against us. Win at all costs. House of cards style..
There is a right way to do things and a wrong way. None of us are perfect. However, there are some things that you can tolerate and other things that you can't. Assaulting any student, professor, etc. on a campus of higher education (or any campus) is intolerable! Now, in dealing with any situation, you need to know all the facts and I personally do not.
What is in the Student Code of Conduct at the University of Alabama that would permanently ban a student who assaults another student? If there is nothing there, there should be.
If you are on a university campus, you should be there to learn so that in the future you will be a more productive member of society. If you are not there to learn and grow as a person, you should not be there! If you are a STUDENT athlete, you are there to learn, grow, and mature just like any other student. Be a good student or be gone!
I have a kid at UA. If this had happened to my kid I'd have to try hard not to return the favor to all involved. I hope I would be able to stand by and let the justice system handle it, but emotionally that would be difficult.
Pettway's involvement was far more than just standing around while something happened out of his control. Much like the driver of a getaway car in a bank robbery, he was an active participant and is responsible legally and morally - like it or not - for what happened that night. He is very fortunate to not be in prison and that his victim (not to mention his father) is the forgiving kind. He may not have thrown the actual punches, but he was nonetheless responsible.
I believe the University should make sure the victims receive the help they need to get through and over this and to succeed in school. Are they legally or morally required to do this? No, but I still believe it's the right thing to do if you are going to do these exact things for one of the perpetrators. I would feel much better about the situation if that were the case. I don't have a clue about anything happening behind the scenes, but I hope something is being done. If not, perhaps anyone so inclined can begin a fund for the young man. I'd contribute to it. And to the other victim as well.
And I'm afraid that is what is being lost here. The article is mostly about the victim and his plight through the beating and afterwards and his walk - as a direct result of the attack - through the valley of near-suicide to hopefully recovery and resolution as not only a victim but also a fan and apparently a member of the band(?). And it makes sense that we'd discuss Pettway, his action, and his punishment again. It makes sense that we'd discuss our opinion on whether he should be back at Alabama.
But in our haste we have again forgotten the victim. I think he and the other victim deserve our thoughtful compassion, regardless of anything else.
Pettway's involvement was far more than just standing around while something happened out of his control. Much like the driver of a getaway car in a bank robbery, he was an active participant and is responsible legally and morally - like it or not - for what happened that night. He is very fortunate to not be in prison and that his victim (not to mention his father) is the forgiving kind. He may not have thrown the actual punches, but he was nonetheless responsible.
I believe the University should make sure the victims receive the help they need to get through and over this and to succeed in school. Are they legally or morally required to do this? No, but I still believe it's the right thing to do if you are going to do these exact things for one of the perpetrators. I would feel much better about the situation if that were the case. I don't have a clue about anything happening behind the scenes, but I hope something is being done. If not, perhaps anyone so inclined can begin a fund for the young man. I'd contribute to it. And to the other victim as well.
And I'm afraid that is what is being lost here. The article is mostly about the victim and his plight through the beating and afterwards and his walk - as a direct result of the attack - through the valley of near-suicide to hopefully recovery and resolution as not only a victim but also a fan and apparently a member of the band(?). And it makes sense that we'd discuss Pettway, his action, and his punishment again. It makes sense that we'd discuss our opinion on whether he should be back at Alabama.
But in our haste we have again forgotten the victim. I think he and the other victim deserve our thoughtful compassion, regardless of anything else.
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Valid comparison since Rapeis was also kicked off the team for a year and had to prove he was a changed man to get back into school.
There are some divergent opinions on this subject, which doesn't surprise me. There are also some truly thoughtful posts on a troubling story and a soup of complicated feelings.
Given some of the posters on this board, that doesn't surprise me either.
Given some of the posters on this board, that doesn't surprise me either.
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this is a different situation. Jameis is accused of rape and is alleged to be the one who committed the crime. The accuser has not said Jameis was just a stand by. Also, the victim, Jergens, is fine with the fact that Pettway is back on the team whereas the victim in the Jameis case is not happy with the fact Jameis is still at FSU. apples and oranges.
I have a child at UA, and will have a second one there next year. If anything like this beating ever happened to either one of them, football or the police would be the least of the worries of the person/people who did this kind of thing to my child. I believe in due process, and in this case, i don't know the facts of who did the beating and who didn't, but whoever was hitting/kicking this kid doesn't deserve to be stealing oxygen from the rest of us who mind our own business. Beating someone to a pulp for the fun of it??? Are you kidding me? Sounds more like a gang initiation type thing if you ask me. Good grief. I have to trust that the player we re-instated must have had a non-physical/beating role in this horrible crime, otherwise we have the wrong people running our program.
He didn't, but he didn't show good citizenship in watching without intervening. I was told that he had a route back, but it was remote that he would be able to make it. I just don't know enough of what was demanded of him to second-guess CNS's opinion on the matter. It looks bad on the surface, but, unfortunately, that's all I know...
I respect Coach Saban. I do not feel he needs to cheat to win, or that he is a win at all costs kind of coach. So, since he did not object I have no problems with this.
I've wondered how much pressure the victims felt to "forgive" DJ. The one interviewed said he grew up rooting for Bama, his whole family does too. He played in the band, and likely wants to see Bama win every football game as bad as anybody here.
He has individual meetings with Saban and a few others, helping him deal with what happened. It seems obvious that with his willingness to forgive, it would make it much easier for the University to take DJ back. He decided, for whatever reason, and I hope it was from the heart and not due to pressure, to forgive. He followed the teaching in the Bible, and I'm glad he was able to do it.
In plain language, I think he "took one for the team."
He has individual meetings with Saban and a few others, helping him deal with what happened. It seems obvious that with his willingness to forgive, it would make it much easier for the University to take DJ back. He decided, for whatever reason, and I hope it was from the heart and not due to pressure, to forgive. He followed the teaching in the Bible, and I'm glad he was able to do it.
In plain language, I think he "took one for the team."
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Whatever solace I take comes from the fact that the football player met the requirements of his coach and his school and had to be vetted for re-enrollment. I'm not overjoyed by DJ's return -- no player is essential. But based on the school's handling of the situation, I'm giving it a chance.
By the way, when I was in school, Greeks jumped other Greeks on a regular basis. So while it's highly possible that a varsity football player, with Saban's endorsement, benefitted from an extra thumb on the scale, it's just as likely we would have heard none of this if players had not been involved.
Besides, our coach has a national reputation of running people off. Don't we find it plausible that he had good reasons unrelated to football for inviting one player back?
Jurgens seems like he has come out the other side okay, but changed forever. He lost his innocence that day in a way that most cannot understand.
DJ is probably as remorseful as the article suggests. His crime was one of not caring for his fellow man enough to confront his friends when they planned and executed something evil in his presence. That takes courage, character and a level of maturity that he clearly did not have at the time - and that he may never have.
I do believe that Saban puts the program ahead of wins, and that he must have some very compelling reasons for bringing DJ back. We may never hear those reasons, but you either trust Saban, or you don't.
Alabama is not my home or my school, so I won't judge his return. I really believe in second chances. Reading the article, this second chance might just save DJ's life. It sounds like his life was getting pretty dark before Saban welcomed him home.
DJ is probably as remorseful as the article suggests. His crime was one of not caring for his fellow man enough to confront his friends when they planned and executed something evil in his presence. That takes courage, character and a level of maturity that he clearly did not have at the time - and that he may never have.
I do believe that Saban puts the program ahead of wins, and that he must have some very compelling reasons for bringing DJ back. We may never hear those reasons, but you either trust Saban, or you don't.
Alabama is not my home or my school, so I won't judge his return. I really believe in second chances. Reading the article, this second chance might just save DJ's life. It sounds like his life was getting pretty dark before Saban welcomed him home.
Only read the 1st 3 pages of this thread but believe you have summed up my thoughts on subject. Really think Saban cares for the players like they were his own (also believe he would not put our program in jeopardy). He (with all the facts) obviously saw something in DJ that made him think DJ was worth a second chance. Nothing is absolutely fool proof in this life. I respect Sabans decision and support it.
When it comes to "everyone deserves a second chance" I'm in the minority. I believe in second chances but I don't buy into that people most of the time deserve them. I believe people definitely should give others second chances but when we start assigning the term "deserve" to it then the element of grace and mercy extended by the innocent party gets put on the back burner and many times forgotten. I've screwed up a few times in my life and have been given second chances and to be honest I didn't deserve it. The offended party didn't somehow owe me a second chance. They could have forgiven me and went on about their daily lives. But to forgive me AND extend a second chance is not something I'd say I earned.
I have no clue what actually happened. My gut tells me DJ Pettway probably is the recipient of more grace and mercy than anything he's earned or "deserves". Which should make him more appreciable of the opportunity he now has. I can't question the authenticity of his remorse because I do not have a window to his heart. So I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he probably is remorseful. But I choose to focus more on the fact the victim extended him forgiveness and probably had some say so on whether he returned to Alabama or not. Seeing that he was a student and played in the band, it wouldn't surprise me if Coach Saban and the university got some level of input from him on whether to let DJ back on campus or not. There's more of a lesson learned in what the victim did and how he responded than anything DJ did to possibly "deserve" a second chance.
I have no clue what actually happened. My gut tells me DJ Pettway probably is the recipient of more grace and mercy than anything he's earned or "deserves". Which should make him more appreciable of the opportunity he now has. I can't question the authenticity of his remorse because I do not have a window to his heart. So I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he probably is remorseful. But I choose to focus more on the fact the victim extended him forgiveness and probably had some say so on whether he returned to Alabama or not. Seeing that he was a student and played in the band, it wouldn't surprise me if Coach Saban and the university got some level of input from him on whether to let DJ back on campus or not. There's more of a lesson learned in what the victim did and how he responded than anything DJ did to possibly "deserve" a second chance.
While rape and assault are very different crimes one was allegedly investigated and no charges were brought and the other pled guilty to a crime. In light of that it seems a little ridiculous that some of the same people criticzing Jimbo Fisher for his handling of Winston will blindly trust Coach Saban due to his superior insight into the situation.
Valid comparison since Rapeis was also kicked off the team for a year and had to prove he was a changed man to get back into school.
DJ Pettway has one incident on his record, which very few on this board know anything about.
Jameis Winston has been in the news for at least 5 different things.
Do you really want to continue comparing the two?
I do not believe everyone deserves a second chance either. I'm a rather unforgiving person either. However, I think my first post on this was explaining a beating I suffered.
At first, I blamed everyone. I didn't just blame everyone, after checking on my injuries, I rather irrationally chased the group of people down and confronted them. I indignantly demanded an explanation (the only one forthcoming by the way was "we have to stick together"). It was a rather foolhardy thing to do...
The incident started when one guy and I got into a fight playing basketball, I saw someone circling around us, assumed he was going to break us up, but in fact he was just trying to get a good angle to kick me in my face without hitting the other guy (my hands weren't free and I didn't even know to try to defend my face anyway). From there, everything else wasn't all that clear. I knew I got kicked a lot, and I blamed everyone present for what happened, and in particular the guy I'd been fighting (who I'd known for years).
It took me a while to figure out that there was blame to be assigned, and that in fact the person I was fighting seemed to have had the least role in it going from a simple skirmish to a beating. He and I were rolling around on the ground, wrestling basically, and the idea the other guy got into his head seemed to have been his own. There were bystanders, and of course they could have stopped it, but for instance I know one didn't participate at all. There was also the primary aggressor.
I didn't forgive the primary aggressor, it was his fault. However, I did reconcile the role of a couple other people when I realized that they played no direct part in what happened. To me, that's a lot of what's going on here. Some people want to go with my initial reaction then, which is to simply blame everyone present. But, that was emotional and illogical. I still don't know exactly who did what, but I can reconstruct enough to figure out who didn't kick me for instance. I'd have to assume had they all been dragged before the police and questioned, as happened with the the 4 players, the police would have had a pretty accurate picture of who did what, after they questioned me as well.
It's perfectly justifiable to have an unforgiving attitude in terms of harm done to you. But, that needs to be based on logical and rational thought. You can't treat the main aggressor, the same way you treat a bystander. That's nonsensical, that's not a good way to deal with the situation emotionally. And, to me that's the main issue here. From everything I've read and heard, Pettway's crime, and he was charged, was that of not doing anything at all to prevent what happened. That was wrong, but does that rise to the level of being unforgivable? I don't see how it should be, and this comes from someone to had to reconcile a similar situation.
You seem to have your perspective backwards. The incident with Pettway, was immediately investigated, he was immediately charged and kicked off the team! We have every reason to believe that they did due diligence, unlike the Winston situation in which it took months, he was represented by the FSU attorney, etc... Also, perhaps as importantly, Pettway was punished and Winston was not! The two incidents themselves are different, but there is much, much more difference in how both were handled. Had FSU handled the situation differently, three FSU players probably would have been kicked off the team immediately (at least as soon as they were connected to it), and this matter would have been fully investigated as soon as the alleged rapist was identified. It's illogical, irrational, and really in poor taste in my mind to compare the two scenarios.
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