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NationalTitles18

NationalTitles18

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

TIDE-HSV said:
In fact, if we can organize it and get people over there to accept it, there is a huge positive reservoir of people who are both ideal caregivers to those with Ebola and are also a reservoir of blood which might save many lives - the survivors of the infection. Instead, they're feared and pariahed...
Click to expand...
True. Treatment now pretty much is to watch if you live or die. Transfusions are rare for a number of reasons, but when done are often helpful. I remember several years ago a doctor doing this and coming under fire even though the results were promising.
 
Aledinho

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

TIDE-HSV said:
Still couldn't get the link to come up, but we mentioned early in the closed thread that there is a very real cultural problem involved in dealing with African governments. The immediate past president of South Africa did immeasurable damage to the health of his country by refusing to believe that HIV caused AIDS...
Click to expand...
I got the page from a friend's facebook news feed. It was typical low evidence conspiracy stuff. I just thought it was amusing that one piece of information (the flights from west Africa) was being used to condemn the government for not protecting us and also for evidence that there is not a contagious disease (never mind the fact the disease has been known for several decades.)

Anecdotally, African Americans here seem to share the skepticism of our governments efforts to treat the disease.
 
NationalTitles18

NationalTitles18

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ould-be-reinstated-union-20141014-115pav.html

It seems other places with advanced health care systems are ill prepared as well.

Cairns, Australia - A doctors union has criticised the Cairns Hospital for suspending two members who raised concerns over the treatment of a patient during an Ebola scare.The pair was stood down on Monday after making critical comments to the media about the hospital's management of the case.
The doctors' claims are now being investigated by an independent panel appointed by Queensland Health.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ated-union-20141014-115pav.html#ixzz3G6YnsBn3
Click to expand...
And here's my take on that:

We in the "western world" have trumpeted loudly that our advanced and sophisticated health care systems could handle any Ebola outbreak - despite never having had to deal with it on our soil. We sat back and relied upon several factors to keep Ebola from our shores and assumed it would not show here and that if it did, "we got it handled, man!"

The factors we actually counted upon to keep it away were:
1. Distance - Africa is a long way away. Simple enough. And IIRC there are no direct flights from there into the US.(could be wrong on that)
2. Jungle - Ebola has always been confined to jungle regions away from major population centers. Well, not this time.
3. The Ebola virus that comes the next time around will be the same as the last time around. A link in the other thread is to a genetic analysis of the strain in West Africa and this analysis points to this strain being a wholly separate strain that evolved in parallel to the other 5 known strains. Perhaps if so it will be called the Guinea Strain or some such name. Anyway, if so this one may be more virulent. See this article: http://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6959087/ebola-outbreak-virus-mutated-airborne
4. The assumption that Ebola is only and only ever can be spread by direct contact. This seems wrong on its face, at least in this outbreak, according to some reports - some which actually seem legit/credible and some of which are definitely not.
5. Everything will work perfectly. Not even close. In fact, the lack of true preparation has led to a number of missteps at every level and layer of our public health system. From a miscalculated risk that it was "unlikely" to come here - trumpeted just days before it did - to miscommunications to misdiagnosis to poor education and training to.....there has been failure at every single step in the process.
6. Standard hospital personal protective equipment will protect those who care for these patients. How anyone could possibly think this is beyond me. Too much is exposed when wearing this equipment. And doffing it - or taking it off - in the best circumstances is problematic and rife of potential exposures. It works for TB and HIV and a number of other diseases, but Ebola is much more virulent and apparently much easier to get when exposed than some have given it credit for. Whether that means it lives on surfaces longer or can enter through unbroken skin or is more easily aerosolized or what is unknown. What is known is that nearly no one expected workers in the US and Spain to get it when it showed up - planned or unplanned - at a regular hospital. Again, why this was the prevailing thought is beyond me. Nevermind all those Western trained professionals infected in Africa...

That's all I got for now.

ETA: The larger point was to say that we said we were ready and we could handle it but we didn't prepare because we assumed too many things.
 
Last edited:
NationalTitles18

NationalTitles18

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

Aledinho said:
I got the page from a friend's facebook news feed. It was typical low evidence conspiracy stuff. I just thought it was amusing that one piece of information (the flights from west Africa) was being used to condemn the government for not protecting us and also for evidence that there is not a contagious disease (never mind the fact the disease has been known for several decades.)

Anecdotally, African Americans here seem to share the skepticism of our governments efforts to treat the disease.
Click to expand...
I can't imagine why....

http://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm
 
cuda.1973

cuda.1973

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

Over the years, I've known lots of people who have worked at that hospital, in Dallas. Including a nurse that worked in their infection control department.

I hope they have a new head, of IC, because if it is the one she worked under...............

We are all dead.

The level of incompetence, coupled with having far less than the required number of IC nurses, including their certification, is mind boggling. They had some nasty law suits thrown at them, and for good reason. And I suspect with healthy out-of-court settlements, so none of us will know bad that place is.

I doubt it has improved.
 
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

NationalTitles15 said:
True. Treatment now pretty much is to watch if you live or die. Transfusions are rare for a number of reasons, but when done are often helpful. I remember several years ago a doctor doing this and coming under fire even though the results were promising.
Click to expand...
I think they fear transfusions and their effectiveness. One thing to remember is that the Africans are very heavily "O." So most transfusions that help are probably going to have to come from Africans. That was the reason Duncan couldn't be helped by Brantly's blood. The Pham girl was very lucky, since only about 27% of Asians are "A."
 
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

NationalTitles15 said:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ould-be-reinstated-union-20141014-115pav.html

It seems other places with advanced health care systems are ill prepared as well.



And here's my take on that:

We in the "western world" have trumpeted loudly that our advanced and sophisticated health care systems could handle any Ebola outbreak - despite never having had to deal with it on our soil. We sat back and relied upon several factors to keep Ebola from our shores and assumed it would not show here and that if it did, "we got it handled, man!"

The factors we actually counted upon to keep it away were:
1. Distance - Africa is a long way away. Simple enough. And IIRC there are no direct flights from there into the US.(could be wrong on that)
2. Jungle - Ebola has always been confined to jungle regions away from major population centers. Well, not this time.
3. The Ebola virus that comes the next time around will be the same as the last time around. A link in the other thread is to a genetic analysis of the strain in West Africa and this analysis points to this strain being a wholly separate strain that evolved in parallel to the other 5 known strains. Perhaps if so it will be called the Guinea Strain or some such name. Anyway, if so this one may be more virulent. See this article: http://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6959087/ebola-outbreak-virus-mutated-airborne
4. The assumption that Ebola is only and only ever can be spread by direct contact. This seems wrong on its face, at least in this outbreak, according to some reports - some which actually seem legit/credible and some of which are definitely not.
5. Everything will work perfectly. Not even close. In fact, the lack of true preparation has led to a number of missteps at every level and layer of our public health system. From a miscalculated risk that it was "unlikely" to come here - trumpeted just days before it did - to miscommunications to misdiagnosis to poor education and training to.....there has been failure at every single step in the process.
6. Standard hospital personal protective equipment will protect those who care for these patients. How anyone could possibly think this is beyond me. Too much is exposed when wearing this equipment. And doffing it - or taking it off - in the best circumstances is problematic and rife of potential exposures. It works for TB and HIV and a number of other diseases, but Ebola is much more virulent and apparently much easier to get when exposed than some have given it credit for. Whether that means it lives on surfaces longer or can enter through unbroken skin or is more easily aerosolized or what is unknown. What is known is that nearly no one expected workers in the US and Spain to get it when it showed up - planned or unplanned - at a regular hospital. Again, why this was the prevailing thought is beyond me. Nevermind all those Western trained professionals infected in Africa...

That's all I got for now.

ETA: The larger point was to say that we said we were ready and we could handle it but we didn't prepare because we assumed too many things.
Click to expand...
Don't know if you caught it today, but the CDC thinks it's spotted the flaw and it's the taking the gear off...
 
NationalTitles18

NationalTitles18

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

SIAP http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/eb...ses-claim-no-system-place-ebola-group-n226046

[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]A union that says it represents nurses in every state criticized the Dallas hospital where an Ebola patient died and where a nurse was sickened, saying that protocols to protect workers were not in place at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital.[/FONT][FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]National Nurses United, in a conference call with reporters Tuesday, said that several nurses at Texas Health Presbyterian complained of confusion in the days after an Ebola patient was diagnosed there, putting nurses at risk, and that there was little training.[/FONT]
[FONT=proxima_nova_rgregular]"There was no advance preparedness on what to do with the patient, there was no protocol, there was no system," the group said in a statement.[/FONT]
Click to expand...
 
TIDE-HSV

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bamaslaw

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

TIDE-HSV said:
Still couldn't get the link to come up, but we mentioned early in the closed thread that there is a very real cultural problem involved in dealing with African governments. The immediate past president of South Africa did immeasurable damage to the health of his country by refusing to believe that HIV caused AIDS...
Click to expand...
My girlfriend is currently studying at Emory to be an epidemiologist - you can imagine how much more exciting this semester has been than previous!

She mentioned that a part of the problem controlling it in Africa is that there really is no understanding of how diseases work. Workers there can't track down people who may have been exposed, because a lot of the people see it as "these foreigners come around with lists, and if you're on it you likely die" - so family members hide people who are on the potentially exposed list when doctors come around. There's likely a lesson for the developed world on it's treatment in general of Africa, but that is an entirely different topic.
 
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

To move the topic where it belongs, I thought these "contacts" were being monitored?
 
bamacon

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

TIDE-HSV said:
In fact, if we can organize it and get people over there to accept it, there is a huge positive reservoir of people who are both ideal caregivers to those with Ebola and are also a reservoir of blood which might save many lives - the survivors of the infection. Instead, they're feared and pariahed...
Click to expand...

That's the biggest problem, overcoming their social mores. I heard the interview you mentioned earlier I think and it centered around a strawman argument by the host (black and white as you described it) in that we either allow status quo travel like nothing is going on or totally abandon Africa. NOBODY has suggested that and we are helping the hell out of them with docs, scientists, troops etc BUT we HAVE got to stop civilian travel. ALL traffic should be military PERIOD. We simply cannot allow free roaming individuals to arrive here from hot zones.
 
A

AV8N

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

TIDE-HSV said:
To move the topic where it belongs, I thought these "contacts" were being monitored?
Click to expand...
It was "self-monitoring", which I guess is the Nancy Snyderman "Soup Run" model taken to the extreme to include cross-country domestic flights.

I'm a little skeptical of the self-monitoring. If you tell someone that the second they notice symptoms, they are going to be isolated in a hospital while cleanup crews toss out their personal belongings and news media scrutinize every detail of their lives, what is the chance that they think "maybe it's just a cold" for a while before they call the ambulance?
 
CrimsonPride25

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Re: If Ebola comes to America, it's the government's fault...

Oh no! Earle has sent my comment to this crazy people thread. I guess I'll start digging the hole for my Ebola Bunker :)
 
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