Crazier in Alabama

PacadermaTideUs

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Dec 10, 2009
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I know campaign finance limitation isn't a popular concept among my fellow conservatives, and I'm not familiar with Alabama's current situation with regard to CF laws or how they may or may not impact Alabama's election outcomes. But I've often thought that the exorbitant cost of getting elected acts as an unhealthy filter on prospective candidates, often weeding out high quality folks in preference to those with money and connections.
 

Tidewater

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Mar 15, 2003
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The amendment strikes me as overly vague, so I would have voted against ratification.
The issue, however, is far from crazy.
In the article, the author takes issue with those skeptical of incorporating international law as a basis for interpreting the Constitution of the United States. If enough countries adopt a custom or practice, it has the effect of becoming, like a treaty whether the United States Senate has approved of it or not. The article points out that the practice of executing minors has been explicitly disapproved by all "civilized nations" and thus now constitutes "cruel and unusual punishment" and is therefore unconstitutional. I would not approve of executing minors, even particularly nasty ones who commit horrendous crimes, but just because other nations have sworn off the practice does not make it perforce binding on the people of the United States. The Founders would have found such reasoning odd had it been advanced at the time, and many would have found it sufficient reason to defeat ratification. The correct way to get rid of it is through legislative, or in extreme cases, adopting a constitutional amendment specifically outlawing the practice, despite whatever a Federal court might say.
This is the essence of the debate between nomocracy (rule-based government) versus teleocracy (government designed to achieve specific ends such as abolishing poverty, say, or building empire. Dueling Teleocrats
Those who argue in favor of using international law in such cases might pause before embracing that as a principle. If enough countries around the world adopt a custom of, say, outlawing all homosexual activity (and there are a number of countries in Africa and the Muslim world, and even the "civilized" European country of Russia that have done exactly that), that, in my view, would not make such a custom binding on the United States, even if a judge should rule that it was. I would just look at such a ruling as a ruling in error waiting to be corrected. Should international custom be formed (with no comment or approval of the people of the United States) on something one finds unacceptable, (it matters not a whit what the issue is, just that one finds it unacceptable, such as, for the sake of argument, prohibition of homosexual acts), a teleocrat will find himself in a tough position. He could switch to being a nomocrat, and argue, “This custom is repugnant to Americans and has not been approved by the Senate of the United States,” but he may find himself surrounded by teleocrats who would argue, “Hey, this is the direction in which human society is moving. Get with the program.” Such anti-gay teleocrats will argue that “the United States went with the flow in prohibiting the execution of minors, so why the inconsistency now? You have already accepted the principle that international custom trumps the provisions of the United States Constitution.” Teleocracy is fine, as long as the telos sought is in line with one’s own preferred telos. When swimming against the tide, it is less comforting. And who knows which way the tide will evolve in the distant future?
 

Tidewater

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I know campaign finance limitation isn't a popular concept among my fellow conservatives, and I'm not familiar with Alabama's current situation with regard to CF laws or how they may or may not impact Alabama's election outcomes. But I've often thought that the exorbitant cost of getting elected acts as an unhealthy filter on prospective candidates, often weeding out high quality folks in preference to those with money and connections.
A term limit of one for elected office (with, say, a five year cooling off period between terms) would solve a lot of that. It's what the Roman Republic did (until they did away with the practice).
 

crimsonaudio

Administrator
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Sep 9, 2002
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Y'all can pile on all you want.

I'd rather live here than any other place on the planet, save perhaps the Smokey Mountains.
I only lived there while I attended the university, so i guess my affinity for it is much less. I like the state - it's beautiful, is home to a GREAT university, and I met my wife while I was in school - but the political environment there is so crazy that virtually every state points and laughs.
 

TideEngineer08

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Jun 9, 2009
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I only lived there while I attended the university, so i guess my affinity for it is much less. I like the state - it's beautiful, is home to a GREAT university, and I met my wife while I was in school - but the political environment there is so crazy that virtually every state points and laughs.
Yeah Montgomery is full of idiots. I just don't think other states are that much better.
 

OreBama

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Sep 26, 2005
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I'm from Alabama and I've lived in Oregon for 15 years now. Alabama politicians often represent the worst of the GOP. Oregon politicians are often the worst of the Democrats. It's been quite an experience going from one extreme political environment to the other. I would move to a more moderate state, but I don't think one exists anymore.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
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The extremely poor drafting made me vote against all five. Even the "gun" amendment could have been construed to allow sheriffs more empowered to reject applications...
 

Tide1986

Suspended
Nov 22, 2008
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I'm confident that if push comes to shove, they'll raid the education trust fund to pay for additional litigation.

Real answer: They don't care if they lose. The real goal of such legislation is to serve as a lightning rod to help whip of the voting base and get re-elected.
what kills me is how often I read people here of tidefans supporting exactly the kind of crap we are talking about here.

Prayer in school, illegal and proven not allowed by the constitution, but when it comes up a large majority on tidefans supports the politician is "proud of them for defending our christian rights!"


Roy Moore and his unconstitutional pandering crap, same deal

Baldwin County and the pre-meeting prayer "let's stand behind em!"

teaching creationism "support our christian right to teach our children about the lie of evil-lution"

Gay rights, same

all of this is costing money, your money people not mine* (well a little of mine as I contribute financially to the FFRF that often fights these things)
Knowledge of the state motto might help you understand Alabamians.
 

Tidewater

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The extremely poor drafting made me vote against all five. Even the "gun" amendment could have been construed to allow sheriffs more empowered to reject applications...
I would have voted no on the two I read, for the same reason.
Teleocrats believe that society is moving in a more liberal (in the classic sense of that term) direction, allowing greater and greater freedom (the telos).
This "widespread international custom as the equivalent of a treaty and therefore as binding on the United States as a ratified treaty even without Senate ratification" approach could come back and bite the US in the back side, if societal evolution overseas gradually bends in some undesirable direction in the distant future. I believe, as awkwardly as the amendment was worded, this amendment was intended to oppose that approach. Or jt666's cynical view that this is just rabble-rousing technique could be correct.
When I first heard this approach in the ruling on execution of minors, I was horrified. Not because I condone execution of minors (that can be dealt with by statute), just the can of worms that approach might open.
Too often, judges, especially Federal judges, look at issues that they disapprove of and just short-circuit the system by ruling on the issue in the absence of legislative action. This is especially true of XIV Amendment jurisprudence. Effectively, it seems that anything a judge doesn't like is therefore unconstitutional. Not every bad idea is unconstitutional and/or within a judge's remit to fix.
 
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