http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/loca...ar-old-shot-at-cleveland-rec-center/19413165/
What an absolute travesty.
What an absolute travesty.
Cleveland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
- Thread starter Displaced Bama Fan
- Start date
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
I have little sympathy if the police reports are true. Kid was dumb enough to take a bb gun to a rec center, had removed the orange tip indicating that it was a toy and refused to drop it when police told him to. It's a sad tragedy but if he had listened to the police or not brought the toy gun in the first place, he'd still be alive.
Parents, in this day and age you should never let your kids take toy guns to public places. You're only asking for trouble.
I have little sympathy if the police reports are true. Kid was dumb enough to take a bb gun to a rec center, had removed the orange tip indicating that it was a toy and refused to drop it when police told him to. It's a sad tragedy but if he had listened to the police or not brought the toy gun in the first place, he'd still be alive.
Parents, in this day and age you should never let your kids take toy guns to public places. You're only asking for trouble.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
Stories like these continue to convince me we have 2 americas. I never needed my parents to explain to me how I shouldnt go waving realistic guns around in public and then reach for it when the cops show up.
Stories like these continue to convince me we have 2 americas. I never needed my parents to explain to me how I shouldnt go waving realistic guns around in public and then reach for it when the cops show up.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
It's just sad that a 12 year old died. I'm not pinning blame on anyone. The kid did a dumb thing, but Jesus he's 12. I have a 12 year old so it just hit home.
It's just sad that a 12 year old died. I'm not pinning blame on anyone. The kid did a dumb thing, but Jesus he's 12. I have a 12 year old so it just hit home.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
could this have been a suicide by cop situation?
could this have been a suicide by cop situation?
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
I doubt it seriously. There's something else to the story that's not being told yet. Not pretending to know what that is, but something just isn't right. Either the kid had some problem that hasn't been disclosed or the cops do. I say this because the circumstances as described make no sense.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
The cub becomes a lion. I can honestly say I'm completely numb to it.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
Assuming that the story, as it has thus far been represented, is true then the majority of the blame has to be put on the child - as unfortunate as that is. By removing the orange safety indicator, waving it around in a public area, pointing it at people, and then refusing to obey the officers' commands to drop the weapon he made himself appear to be a dangerous threat to both the officers and the people around him.
If someone appears to be an obvious threat to law enforcement officers and others around them - whether that person is 12, 22, or 62 - then the officers have a responsibility to neutralize the threat, which typically means shooting the individual.
Now, if the story hasn't been accurately represented - for example, if the child did drop the weapon but the officers fired anyway or they fired before the child was given a chance to drop the weapon - then the officers should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Assuming that the story, as it has thus far been represented, is true then the majority of the blame has to be put on the child - as unfortunate as that is. By removing the orange safety indicator, waving it around in a public area, pointing it at people, and then refusing to obey the officers' commands to drop the weapon he made himself appear to be a dangerous threat to both the officers and the people around him.
If someone appears to be an obvious threat to law enforcement officers and others around them - whether that person is 12, 22, or 62 - then the officers have a responsibility to neutralize the threat, which typically means shooting the individual.
Now, if the story hasn't been accurately represented - for example, if the child did drop the weapon but the officers fired anyway or they fired before the child was given a chance to drop the weapon - then the officers should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
There is an audio recording that, if authentic, shows the caller to 911 thought the gun was "probably fake" but that the kid was scaring people with it. He said several times either that he wasn't sure it was real or that it was probably fake. He never reported shots fired. I understand that cops have a difficult job protecting the lives of citizens and themselves alike. But that's just it - they are there to protect the lives of citizens. This boy is a civilian. So are all the other 12 year olds out there. Cops have a duty to use deadly force only as a last resort, legalities notwithstanding. This is an especially tough situation. I am not blaming the cops or the boy. I am asking questions. It is beyond unfortunate.
There is an audio recording that, if authentic, shows the caller to 911 thought the gun was "probably fake" but that the kid was scaring people with it. He said several times either that he wasn't sure it was real or that it was probably fake. He never reported shots fired. I understand that cops have a difficult job protecting the lives of citizens and themselves alike. But that's just it - they are there to protect the lives of citizens. This boy is a civilian. So are all the other 12 year olds out there. Cops have a duty to use deadly force only as a last resort, legalities notwithstanding. This is an especially tough situation. I am not blaming the cops or the boy. I am asking questions. It is beyond unfortunate.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
For those with kids in this age range, how do you impart the correct respect for how things have become in today's society with regards to police and how they are treating everything with overwhelming force?
My question comes in part because I remember a time when there were no orange safety markings on bb or toy guns. I don't remember as many stories about kids getting killed by cops. Granted that was pre-internet, and stories travel so much faster, and get sensationalized so much, so it is entirely possible that the frequency/number of incidents have remained relatively the same since before the safety markings, but I just don't recall.
So here is the thing, do you line up stories like this and have a session with your child imparting the no nonsense nature of doing stupid things like this? I know that most kids don't take into account all of the ramifications of something they do, whether its peer pressure or something they saw on TV, they just don't have the life experiences to make rational pro/con type evaluations on doing some things.
In a nice easy bake version of the question: When, if ever, do you start scaring your kid with information about how many different ways things they do can get them injured/killed by doing stupid things like this? Just having conversations like this seem like the immediate "innocence lost" type moments. I don't expect for kids to remain innocent forever, but it seems like the potential for them to worry only about being a kid has been shrinking for quite some time. Whether its how to remain safe on the internet, what not to do with a toy gun, or how to not get tasered in class, the amount of overall time that you could just let your kid be a kid seems to be an ever narrowing window.
For those with kids in this age range, how do you impart the correct respect for how things have become in today's society with regards to police and how they are treating everything with overwhelming force?
My question comes in part because I remember a time when there were no orange safety markings on bb or toy guns. I don't remember as many stories about kids getting killed by cops. Granted that was pre-internet, and stories travel so much faster, and get sensationalized so much, so it is entirely possible that the frequency/number of incidents have remained relatively the same since before the safety markings, but I just don't recall.
So here is the thing, do you line up stories like this and have a session with your child imparting the no nonsense nature of doing stupid things like this? I know that most kids don't take into account all of the ramifications of something they do, whether its peer pressure or something they saw on TV, they just don't have the life experiences to make rational pro/con type evaluations on doing some things.
In a nice easy bake version of the question: When, if ever, do you start scaring your kid with information about how many different ways things they do can get them injured/killed by doing stupid things like this? Just having conversations like this seem like the immediate "innocence lost" type moments. I don't expect for kids to remain innocent forever, but it seems like the potential for them to worry only about being a kid has been shrinking for quite some time. Whether its how to remain safe on the internet, what not to do with a toy gun, or how to not get tasered in class, the amount of overall time that you could just let your kid be a kid seems to be an ever narrowing window.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
If the cop is wrong to do that, we'll take the matter up with his supervisor in the calm environment of an office the next day. You are not going to win an argument with a cop on the street. The only question is how much you are going to lose.
I believe that protests like Ferguson add fuel to the flames of young people, especially young black people, assuming cops are all racist and the idea that it is acceptable to fight the cops in the street.
The cops may be wrong, but you are not going to get to the bottom of that question there on the street. Capture evidence, especially video evidence if possible, or any perceived police wrong-doing and take it up the next day in a calmer environment.
Sorry this kid was killed. I bet the cop is terribly sorry this kid is now dead. When a cop orders you to drop your BB gun, drop the dang BB gun.
I do not believe cops were so trigger happy when I was young. I do, however, firmly believe that law enforcement is much more dangerous today than it was when I was in high school.
I started with telling my kids that you do whatever a cop tells you to do as long as it is not illegal, immoral or dangerous. If they tell you to get on your knees with your hands in the air, you get on your knees with your hands in the air.
If the cop is wrong to do that, we'll take the matter up with his supervisor in the calm environment of an office the next day. You are not going to win an argument with a cop on the street. The only question is how much you are going to lose.
I believe that protests like Ferguson add fuel to the flames of young people, especially young black people, assuming cops are all racist and the idea that it is acceptable to fight the cops in the street.
The cops may be wrong, but you are not going to get to the bottom of that question there on the street. Capture evidence, especially video evidence if possible, or any perceived police wrong-doing and take it up the next day in a calmer environment.
Sorry this kid was killed. I bet the cop is terribly sorry this kid is now dead. When a cop orders you to drop your BB gun, drop the dang BB gun.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
This is very striking from the article:
I'm sorry but, I just can't blame the cop, not yet at least. From the cop's point if view, he was trying to protect others from an armed suspect. The boy did everything wrong by bring the toy to begin with and then ignoring the cop's orders to drop it. Sorry but until more facts come out, this was the boy's fault and only the boy's fault.
I would teach my kids not to take their toy guns to a public place, especially if the orange tip has been removed. Where were the parents in this situation?
This is very striking from the article:
Does the public really expect cops to come to a gun fight with tasers, or only aim for the legs allowing an armed person to continue shooting? I know it was a toy gun this time but, next time it might be real. What would the public say if 5 other kids where shot and killed because the cops only used a taser?
I'm sorry but, I just can't blame the cop, not yet at least. From the cop's point if view, he was trying to protect others from an armed suspect. The boy did everything wrong by bring the toy to begin with and then ignoring the cop's orders to drop it. Sorry but until more facts come out, this was the boy's fault and only the boy's fault.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
I can't imagine the horror going through this cop's mind every night. It's every cop's nightmare to shoot a kid. In this case, the cop had no choice but to follow his training. Yes, it resulted in him taking the life of a child. Had he done any differently though, he could have lost his own life instead.
I can't imagine the horror going through this cop's mind every night. It's every cop's nightmare to shoot a kid. In this case, the cop had no choice but to follow his training. Yes, it resulted in him taking the life of a child. Had he done any differently though, he could have lost his own life instead.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
This reminds me of a case not too long ago in California. Similar in that both kids had realistic looking BB guns with the orange tip removed, thus making it look very real. Also, both kids disregarded police orders and acted in a manner that police found threatening.
I've sometimes wondered why criminals don't paint the tips of their very real weapons bright orange. Especially if incidents like these cause police departments to revise their rules.
This reminds me of a case not too long ago in California. Similar in that both kids had realistic looking BB guns with the orange tip removed, thus making it look very real. Also, both kids disregarded police orders and acted in a manner that police found threatening.
I've sometimes wondered why criminals don't paint the tips of their very real weapons bright orange. Especially if incidents like these cause police departments to revise their rules.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
Isn't 12 a bit old to still play with toy guns?
Isn't 12 a bit old to still play with toy guns?
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
Is it? I know we had cap guns back in the day that we played with....I don't remember what age we quit playing with them though.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
Me too, but back then they were bright silver colored "six-guns" that had a strip of blown caps coming out from in front of the hammer. When we ran out of caps, we just yelled "bang!, bang!". Iirc, we also had a little holster and a cowboy hat that we wore with it. Even a blind person could tell back then that we were using toys. But of course that was well over half a century ago, and folks had a lot more common sense than do folks now.
Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun
So why haven't they protested in Cleveland like they are doing in Ferguson? Was the cop who shot the boy, black?
So why haven't they protested in Cleveland like they are doing in Ferguson? Was the cop who shot the boy, black?
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