Cleveland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun

Displaced Bama Fan

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I'm not convinced the kid had a clue what was going on or that he posed an alleged danger to anyone. He was probably completely shocked by the events. I know how my 12 year old is, and he would have been completely mystified by the cops rolling up on him like that.
 

TrueCrimson7

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I'm not convinced the kid had a clue what was going on or that he posed an alleged danger to anyone. He was probably completely shocked by the events. I know how my 12 year old is, and he would have been completely mystified by the cops rolling up on him like that.
You may be right, but the video appears to show that the boy was reaching for his waist where the gun was placed. I have sympathy for any family who loses someone in this manner. But what might have happened if the police officer had waited to see what the boy was doing or to find out what type of weapon it was? When someone draws for a gun on a police officer, one of them is going to get hurt/killed. It's just a matter of who. Very sad situation.
 
I"m not sure what to think of this. Toy gun that looks real and he is using it in some form, maybe, to scare people. That is not a correct thing to do. However, cops just roll up and start dumping on the kid without using precaution or even common sense (which isn't common these days). It's scary both ways. I hope there isn't race baiting going on because it isn't about race at all. It is about correctness. Just an unfortunate event and one that my children will have to learn from as well as I. You just can't go around playing like that.
 

gmart74

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I'm not convinced the kid had a clue what was going on or that he posed an alleged danger to anyone. He was probably completely shocked by the events. I know how my 12 year old is, and he would have been completely mystified by the cops rolling up on him like that.
I see the incident colored by the Bawlmer experience. 12 yr olds up here are already indoctrinated into the violence of gang life. So maybe he knew exactly what he was doing. Maybe he didnt. I will say that the one cop needs to work on his footwork, seeing as he falls right on his butt after shooting the kid. If he misses, and that was a real gun, he could have been dead.
 

TideMom2Boys

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I think I read that it was a rookie that shot the kid. If that was the case, his TO should be questioned on his training tactics. This seems like an issue of a cop pulling the trigger before thinking. He had no hesitation at all.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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I"m not sure what to think of this. Toy gun that looks real and he is using it in some form, maybe, to scare people. That is not a correct thing to do. However, cops just roll up and start dumping on the kid without using precaution or even common sense (which isn't common these days). It's scary both ways. I hope there isn't race baiting going on because it isn't about race at all. It is about correctness. Just an unfortunate event and one that my children will have to learn from as well as I. You just can't go around playing like that.
Not any more. We could but unfortunately, times have changed. Time to go back to the water guns.
 

rolltide_21

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Even if the gun was real, I am almost positive that a trained grown man can disarm a 12 YO without lethal force. Even if you did use your weapon, a non-life threatening shot would have disarmed him. Just my thoughts.
 
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NationalTitles18

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Even if the gun was real, I am almost positive that a trained grown man can disarm a 12 YO without lethal force. Even if you did use your weapon, a non-life threatening shot or a shoot and miss (to scare) would have disarmed him. Just my thoughts.
Once an officer pulls his weapon it's already over but the crying. The key is not getting to that point. I think you are living in a fantasy movie world with the non-lethal or shoot and miss scare tactics. That's how anyone gets themself killed. Ain't ever gonna happen ever....except in the movies.
 

rolltide_21

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Once an officer pulls his weapon it's already over but the crying. The key is not getting to that point. I think you are living in a fantasy movie world with the non-lethal or shoot and miss scare tactics. That's how anyone gets themself killed. Ain't ever gonna happen ever....except in the movies.
Officers are taught to disarm the situation using lethal force only if necessary. Encountering a 12 YO is most likely not necessary. I'm sure there are situation Sounds like he was a inexperienced officer who handled the situation terribly.

You're point about "fantasy world" is full of crap. No one is even suggesting that. Yes, officers are taught to shoot to inflict non-lethal wounds if the situation deems necessary. I'm friends with several officers (local police, state and federal agents) and they have told me as such.
 

gmart74

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Even if the gun was real, I am almost positive that a trained grown man can disarm a 12 YO without lethal force. Even if you did use your weapon, a non-life threatening shot or a shoot and miss (to scare) would have disarmed him. Just my thoughts.
that is easily the most misinformed viewpoint i have read in yrs.
police are taught that a firearm is a lethal tool. it is only to be used in a lethal manner ie center of mass shots. There are no cops anywhere in the US that are trained to shoot guns out of hands, or shoot the leg, or shoot to scare. Any cop that told you differently either isnt a cop or has to be the worst trained cop in the US.
 
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rolltide_21

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Actually its not misinformed. Just saying that something could have been done without lethal force. But its easy for me say that when not in the heat of the moment though.
 

NationalTitles18

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Officers are taught to disarm the situation using lethal force only if necessary. Encountering a 12 YO is most likely not necessary. I'm sure there are situation Sounds like he was a inexperienced officer who handled the situation terribly.

You're point about "fantasy world" is full of crap. No one is even suggesting that. Yes, officers are taught to shoot to inflict non-lethal wounds if the situation deems necessary. I'm friends with several officers (local police, state and federal agents) and they have told me as such.
Just go ahead and kiss those cops goodbye before they get killed. I don't believe the story for a second. I actually do know quite a few cops and none of them would ever shoot to scare or aim for anything but center of mass. Anyone who says different is lying.
 

NationalTitles18

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Actually its not misinformed. Just saying that something could have been done without lethal force. But its easy for me say that when not in the heat of the moment though.
Yes, they are taught to deescalate the situation when possible. IIRC, as soon as they pulled up the kids reached for the gun, which we now know is a toy, but the officer didn't have the luxury. He also didn't know the kids age. He also didn't know his gang affiliation or church membership. In a split second he had to consider he may die or shoot this young man. It is tragic. The cop isn't to blame. It would be helpful if the cops could meet more people so he would know his church membership and gang affiliation and who his momma is and the rest. That's not reality right now, though.
 

seebell

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Yes, they are taught to deescalate the situation when possible. IIRC, as soon as they pulled up the kids reached for the gun, which we now know is a toy, but the officer didn't have the luxury. He also didn't know the kids age. He also didn't know his gang affiliation or church membership. In a split second he had to consider he may die or shoot this young man. It is tragic. The cop isn't to blame. It would be helpful if the cops could meet more people so he would know his church membership and gang affiliation and who his momma is and the rest. That's not reality right now, though.
I agree with you. But the way the police pulled up the kid, if he so desired, could have killed the officer in the passenger seat before he ever got out of the car and maybe the driver too. Their positioning forced an immediate decision on their part. Are they really taught to pull up within 5-10 feet of an unknown subject with a "gun"?
 

seebell

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Re: Clevland cops shoot 12 yr old playing with toy gun

Feds Find Shocking, Systemic Brutality, Incompetence In Cleveland Police Department

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/04/cleveland-police-doj_n_6270220.html

The Justice Department began investigating the use of force in Cleveland's police division in March 2013. A few months prior, Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson had requested that the agency look into the issue. Jackson's request came after a high-profile police chase in November 2012 that resulted in Cleveland police dispatching at least 62 vehicles, firing 137 bullets and killing two unarmed black suspects, who each sustained more than 20 gunshot wounds.

the agency pointed to an incident in 2011 where officers "fired 24 rounds in a residential neighborhoods," with six rounds striking houses and 14 hitting parked cars. In another case, "an officer’s decision to draw his gun while trying to apprehend an unarmed hit-and-run suspect resulted in him accidentally shooting the man in the neck."

Sounds like a trigger happy bunch!
:confused:
 

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