So the 4 team playoff didn't even make it 1 year without controversy, how long till 8

KrAzY3

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That crisis is averted. Everything else is belly aching by people who won't be happy if we had 32 teams
There would have been no crisis, the undefeated team would be in and the top one loss team would have been in. Did I miss a crisis in 2012 (Oregon finished the year with one loss)? This Alabama team though, has the best resume of any BCS era one loss Alabama team, they were so clearly ahead that the polls even put them #1, but in the BCS era they would have likely been the clear #2 with no real debate. There have been controversial years, but this wouldn't have been one of them.
You SERIOUSLY think there wouldn't be folks making the argument that "Oregon's loss doesn't count because they beat Arizona in a rematch?" And there wouldn't be heming and hawing? Don't forget, we have media mouths that complained Boise State wasn't being given their due.
The funny thing is that after reading that first sentence, I was going to use Boise State as an example. Of course, someone would have complained, like the ESPN guy in 2009 bringing up Boise State, but perhaps we just have different views of what a controversy is. Controversy is moving a team down 2 places on a win, controversy was what happened in 2011, that's how I see it.

Again, it's not that I disagree with the SoS argument you make (however - if you're consistent then we shouldn't have been there in 2011 since Okie St's SoS was higher). And we draw..
I probably should use a disclaimer on all SoS discussions, because to me it's kind of a ballpark figure type of stat. Okie State had an amazing (SEC West style) SoS of 3, and Alabama had an SoS of 15. That's a noticeable gap, but not so huge that you can't look at the fact that Okie State lost to a bad team and Alabama lost to the #1 team, and other factors. An interesting side note though is that if they had a conference championship game that year, that might have been enough to push them ahead of Alabama. Anyway, the argument I was making for FSU, is that the SoS is close enough even though FSU is lower that you shouldn't overlook one team being undefeated.

To get a feel for this year, here's the SoS stats:
Alabama 4
Oregon 33
FSU 37 (undefeated)
Ohio State 52
TCU 42 (they played one less game)

For the record, the BCS formula would have Alabama #1 and FSU #2, but I think the committee impacted the polls and that would likely have been FSU #1 with Alabama #2 by a significant margin. The main point though is that the SoS gap is so massive that it destroys most arguments in my mind, but I'm still not sure Alabama should have been ranked ahead of an undefeated FSU with a top 40 SoS.

I think the political nature of the committee invites controversy (honestly simply being controversial is not my main concern though), and what they did do to FSU (who I despise), goes against everything we've ever known about college football. The basketball committee gets away with a lot because no one actually sees their true seeding (they are there, but for reasons I haven't figured out yet they tend to be well hidden), and when it's all said and done people don't get that upset about being the difference between a 1 or a 2 seed. Here though, it all matters a lot.
 
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RammerJammer14

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People are overreacting when we haven't even had the 1st playoff play out yet. This is a rare year to have this many 1-loss or less teams in the Top 6.

It needs to stay 4 teams. Usually there would only be 3 teams with 1 or less losses and #4 and lower would be 2 loss teams.

A 6 or 8 team playoff would open Pandora's Box to 2 or even 3 loss teams having a chance to get hot late and win a title which would completely diminish the regular season. It would be like the Giants winning those SuperBowls with 7 losses. Ridiculous.
Its already got people trying to strategize regular season losses. We had many people on this board hoping Ole Miss would win out so that we wouldn't have to play in the SEC championship. I mean, that's crazy talk.
 

JeffAtlanta

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2004 Auburn would argue that point I think.
It would be a very poor argument. Southern Cal had just gotten through throttling Auburn in a home-home series the previous two years. It's also a very hard case to make that Auburn was more deserving than Oklahoma.

Remember, in 2004 the SEC was just starting to wake up again from a pretty significant down period.
 

selmaborntidefan

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There would have been no crisis, the undefeated team would be in and the top one loss team would have been in. Did I miss a crisis in 2012 (Oregon finished the year with one loss)? This Alabama team though, has the best resume of any BCS era one loss Alabama team, they were so clearly ahead that the polls even put them #1, but in the BCS era they would have likely been the clear #2 with no real debate. There have been controversial years, but this wouldn't have been one of them.
The funny thing is that after reading that first sentence, I was going to use Boise State as an example. Of course, someone would have complained, like the ESPN guy in 2009 bringing up Boise State, but perhaps we just have different views of what a controversy is. Controversy is moving a team down 2 places on a win, controversy was what happened in 2011, that's how I see it.


I probably should use a disclaimer on all SoS discussions, because to me it's kind of a ballpark figure type of stat. Okie State had an amazing (SEC West style) SoS of 3, and Alabama had an SoS of 15. That's a noticeable gap, but not so huge that you can't look at the fact that Okie State lost to a bad team and Alabama lost to the #1 team, and other factors. An interesting side note though is that if they had a conference championship game that year, that might have been enough to push them ahead of Alabama. Anyway, the argument I was making for FSU, is that the SoS is close enough even though FSU is lower that you shouldn't overlook one team being undefeated.

To get a feel for this year, here's the SoS stats:
Alabama 4
Oregon 33
FSU 37 (undefeated)
Ohio State 52
TCU 42 (they played one less game)

For the record, the BCS formula would have Alabama #1 and FSU #2, but I think the committee impacted the polls and that would likely have been FSU #1 with Alabama #2 by a significant margin. The main point though is that the SoS gap is so massive that it destroys most arguments in my mind, but I'm still not sure Alabama should have been ranked ahead of an undefeated FSU with a top 40 SoS.

I think the political nature of the committee invites controversy (honestly simply being controversial is not my main concern though), and what they did do to FSU (who I despise), goes against everything we've ever known about college football. The basketball committee gets away with a lot because no one actually sees their true seeding (they are there, but for reasons I haven't figured out yet they tend to be well hidden), and when it's all said and done people don't get that upset about being the difference between a 1 or a 2 seed. Here though, it all matters a lot.
Btw - you and I AGREE on the SoS component, which is why I wasn't so much trying to take it apart as expose its versatility. We've been over that before and I think that's one thing you and I are in total agreement on.
 

selmaborntidefan

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It would be a very poor argument. Southern Cal had just gotten through throttling Auburn in a home-home series the previous two years.
Because we all know that games played TWO YEARS previous should be relevant to the situation at hand. (THAT would be a very poor argument).


It's also a very hard case to make that Auburn was more deserving than Oklahoma.
Nope. It isn't hard to make that argument at all. Auburn played three teams (admittedly one twice) that were ranked, OU played three. OU played five teams with winning records (but one was Bowling Green State, which hardly merits mention), Auburn played four. Auburn played FOUR teams with nine or more wins and OU played two (unless you drop Bowling Green and then the only real opponent they played was Texas).

The ONLY reason Oklahoma went is simple: they started the year number two while Auburn was way down the pike at 17. If the two teams had started in opposite places, Auburn would have played USC.

I'm not trying to be an Auburn apologist, but this whole "Oklahoma was more deserving" notion was based upon 2003 - a year might I add that OU got blown out by Kansas State in the Big 12 title game (if we want to use previous years' results).

Remember, in 2004 the SEC was just starting to wake up again from a pretty significant down period.
I would disagree with this statement because the SEC was not really "down," it's just that the parity was so well-balanced that the conference wiped itself out (a lot like this year).

In the 1990s, the SEC had THREE different national champions (Alabama 92, Florida 96, Tennessee 98). The Big Eight had also had three (Colorado 90, Nebraska 94-95), the ACC three (Ga Tech 90, FSU 93, FSU 99) and the Big East and Pac 10 one each (the 91 split with Miami and Washington). The Big 12 had one, Nebraska.

But you can't view the Big Eight/Big 12 set as dominant....that's not a CONFERENCE domination, it was one talented set of recruits at Nebraska that won all those. And Colorado's title is one of the sicker jokes ever.

In 2000, it's true the SEC didn't really have a contender. I'll grant that one down year. But in 2001, Tennessee took Florida out (thanks to the 9/11 delay perhaps) and then LSU took Tennessee out. Both teams were national title contenders. In 2002, UGA had one bad day and it cost them everything.


You're correct that the SEC was not seen as quite so dominant in 2004 - not like the run of 2006-13 for sure - but the conference was never all that "down." Auburn did, however, suffer from the notion that LSU had "lucked" into their 2003 title thanks to K-State and not playing USC.
 

KrAzY3

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Its already got people trying to strategize regular season losses. We had many people on this board hoping Ole Miss would win out so that we wouldn't have to play in the SEC championship. I mean, that's crazy talk.
No, that's Krazy talk ;) I was one of them, but I was confident in Alabama's ability to make it in, I just wanted the path of least resistance. It is sad to me what it's doing to the regular season though, I really wasn't all that worked up about most of the other games because I felt even with the loss Alabama just had to win (I made a post the week of the loss saying as much). It was nothing like 2011 or 2012.
 

alwayshavebeen

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I think at the end of the day the committee chose the best 4 teams but got real lucky the last couple of weeks. First Ole Miss beat Miss St and then all the favorites won on championship weekend. Odds of that happening again are <10% in the future. I still do not like the committee method and will use TCU as an example. Ranking them #3 was a big mistake (including the fact Baylor beat them). How can you drop your #3 three spots after they finish with a 50+ point win? Just a real bad move putting there to begin with.

Onward...Now many are calling for the 8 team playoff with 5 conference champs and 3 at-large model. IMO that is setting yourself up for complete disaster. I've said in the off season threads this is not keeping with the 2, 4, 8 or whatever best teams in college football. If they lock themselves to that and then on conference championship weekend 8-4 Duke knocks off 11-1 Fl. St (just trying not to exhibit SEC bias ;)) and/or 9-3 UGA knocks off 11-1 Bama etc etc etc we have a mess. There are dozens of scenarios like this including the one-loss SEC that doesn't even make the SECCG. And lastly, if the "great" Fleeting Irish don't join a conference full time I say they can go to Shreveport every year..So long as they win 6 games.

FWIW - I think it should stay at 4 and winning a conference championship is not a requirement. Pick the best teams.
 

USCBAMA

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Including teams that are clearly inferior to the top two teams?



You don't want to reward regular season results?
So 6 teams is fine, but 8 teams completely discounts the regular season?

By having a playoff they are already taking teams supposedly inferior to the top 2 teams, but the point of a playoff is that there often is no consensus on the top teams. If it's going to be 4, leave it 4, but if it's going to expand, go to 8. 6 leaves a very uneven playing field , creating more controversey than it solves.
 

bamafaninOhiO

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I agree 100%. I was just about to say the same thing.

Jason
So, we have to include two champs from the Big12. They declared co-champs, you know..that'd be the only fair way.

Its ridiculous, you cant please everyone.

If you look at the rationale behind the decision...it was the right call.

The Big 12 needs to remove the extra bye week they have, and play a 13th game, a championship game, which will ensure that they play a high profile game on the last saturday, and actually determine "ONe true Champion", which is the Big12's motto.

NOONE will ever be impressed when TCU beats a 2-9 team on every other conferences championship saturday, no matter whos on the committee.
 

B1GTide

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NOONE will ever be impressed when TCU beats a 2-9 team on every other conferences championship saturday, no matter whos on the committee.
I agree - when your last game is against a 2-9 team in your conference you are in a no win situation. If you barely win, then you barely beat a 2-9 team. If you crush them (55-3) then you demonstrate just how weak the bottom half of your conference really is. TCU was not going to come out of this game looking better than they already did. A bye in the last week would have produced the same impact.

Baylor's schedule leading up to their last game was so weak that they had already been discounted, as had Ohio State. They both played tough opponents in their last week, each with a chance to make an impression. Thankfully, OSU made a greater impression in that last game.
 

Tide1986

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So 6 teams is fine, but 8 teams completely discounts the regular season?

By having a playoff they are already taking teams supposedly inferior to the top 2 teams, but the point of a playoff is that there often is no consensus on the top teams. If it's going to be 4, leave it 4, but if it's going to expand, go to 8. 6 leaves a very uneven playing field , creating more controversey than it solves.
I believe there is consensus around who the top 3 teams are.

Four is enough, but I thought two was enough as well.
 

bamafaninOhiO

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I believe there is consensus around who the top 3 teams are.

Four is enough, but I thought two was enough as well.

No matter how many you let in (2, 4, 6, 8,...16?), someone will think they were left out,...and cry about it.

...thats Just a fact of life.

There were 3 solid 'ins'...and 1 slot for 3. The committee got it right, and now the Big12 needs to revisit thier' conference model' to ensure that they can match up with every other confernece at the end of the season when they review the finer details.
 

Bamaro

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While the previous, and meaningless, ranking was rather curious and questionable, the committee got it right in the end. I dont think many will question whether the best two teams in the country were included.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Not anytime soon. How many years was the BCS at two without controversy?
The BCS had controversy in its third year and if a couple of things had broken a certain way there'd have been one in 1998. The BCS had controversy almost every single year.
 

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