I like to believe that I hold myself to a higher standard but if you harm my son, that higher standard goes out the window. I will do what I have to in order to protect him.
News Article: Senate CIA torture report released
- Thread starter Bamaro
- Start date
Whether it worked or not, whether it was the right thing to do or not is irrelevant. This should have never seen the light of day. The only reason this was released was a middle finger to this country. That alone should give any sane person pause when considering supporting these people.
And another thing. What these terrorists have done and are doing is far worse than anything we've done in response. The blurring of those lines is, quite frankly, sickening to me.
And another thing. What these terrorists have done and are doing is far worse than anything we've done in response. The blurring of those lines is, quite frankly, sickening to me.
As a veteran, I never wanted to kill someone. I think it is a horrible thing to do, but if that is what it takes to protect the citizens and freedoms of my country then I will have no problem doing it.
Proctoclysis is an accepted medical protocol for delivery of fluids to dehydrated patients. The preferred route in non-severe dehydration patients who are willing to drink is oral. But in patients who are not willing to drink (as was the case with Khan), you are left with three possible routes: intravenous ($2.43/day), subcutaneous ($3.98/day), and rectal ($0.07/day) The procedure is also not a particularly uncomfortable one (link).
Aside from the relative affordability of proctoclysis when compared to other methods of rehydration, the rectal route, as with the oral route, has the added medical benefit of keeping a patient's enteric (intestinal) system actively engaged, avoiding secondary complications that commonly arise over time when the enteric system is bypassed.
Aside from the relative affordability of proctoclysis when compared to other methods of rehydration, the rectal route, as with the oral route, has the added medical benefit of keeping a patient's enteric (intestinal) system actively engaged, avoiding secondary complications that commonly arise over time when the enteric system is bypassed.
Doesn't bother me a bit. What's bothersome is that this bothers you to be honest. What about the other 93?
Besides, what exactly is "wrongfully held" supposed to mean? Were we trying to detain people with ties to terrorist groups and ended up detaining 26 people from the drive through at Taco Bell? Get real.
This does bother me. Trying to justify this with "They started it." or "They do worse." IMO is juvenile. I do not want to go down the path of repaying evil with evil. In my opinion, if there is a lack of trust cost with our intelligence gathering methods being uncovered, then there is the problem.
There is a great deal of difference disclosing means and methods when those will no longer be available to us due to the disclosure. This is not the case.
I want future generations to be proud of how we conducted ourselves when protecting ourselves. Even when it costs us greatly, in the end it reaps benefits far beyond what a single coerced piece of information may. This reminds me of first hand stories I have been told out of Vietnam prison camps and I do not want to be associated with it.
That said. I also do not want to tie the hands of those who are trying to protect us. I understand those that disagree with me, and do not think less of them. I understand when someone feels urgency in an attempt to stop something bad from happening.
IMO infiltration is a better and more productive method. When we do things like this it limits our ability to recruit those who would help us. Those that wish to harm us are able to point to this and rightly use it against us. Trying to hide this in a free society is futile. I prefer the free society to one that would be able to hide this.
JMHO
There is a great deal of difference disclosing means and methods when those will no longer be available to us due to the disclosure. This is not the case.
I want future generations to be proud of how we conducted ourselves when protecting ourselves. Even when it costs us greatly, in the end it reaps benefits far beyond what a single coerced piece of information may. This reminds me of first hand stories I have been told out of Vietnam prison camps and I do not want to be associated with it.
That said. I also do not want to tie the hands of those who are trying to protect us. I understand those that disagree with me, and do not think less of them. I understand when someone feels urgency in an attempt to stop something bad from happening.
IMO infiltration is a better and more productive method. When we do things like this it limits our ability to recruit those who would help us. Those that wish to harm us are able to point to this and rightly use it against us. Trying to hide this in a free society is futile. I prefer the free society to one that would be able to hide this.
JMHO
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Completely agree with you on the bolded part.
However, when you say, "I want future generations to be proud of how we conducted ourselves when protecting ourselves. Even when it costs us greatly"... please elaborate on exactly what you mean by that if you don't mind.
I think future generations are going to be proud of any method that is effective in thwarting attacks, and keeping the country safe.
It does no good to infiltrate the enemy if you're just going to let the enemy infiltrate you through lack of secure borders and granting illegals amnesty.
That trade off ain't worth it.
There's free society, and then there's biting your nose off to spite your face. Security of this country and it's citizens, including our men and women of the military, should always be of higher priority than political mud slinging. Which America has clearly lost sight of.
Maybe they will. I am not proud of this and would hope my children and grandchildren would not be either. I once told a soldier who had just returned from Iraq that one of the things I was most proud of was the way they were conducting themselves. In the political environment where everyone was trying to get anything to make Bush looked bad, it was obvious to me that they were doing well.
Then we found out about what a few did at Abu Ghraib and it caused permanent damage to the service of everyone who went.
Yes, I would rather suffer personally for doing good rather than be safe and secure by doing evil.
That we can totally agree on.
I agree with this too. Politics should end at the borders during a conflict. In our system, those that are charged with our safety should be given our support. We still have a system to replace those we do not approve of or trust (however imperfect). Let history decide whether they were justified in their actions.
Even though there were those trying to disparage the administration then by every means possible (and I disapprove of that then and now), At this point it is retrospective, and we are at the point where history is deciding.
torture is immoral and wrong regardless of how one wants to justify its use. additionally, the geneva conventions consider torture to be a war crime.
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It also says, "In international armed conflict".. or in other words, conventional warfare. With which I agree with. If we're in a conventional war, then prisoners are to be treated with a different set of rules than rogue terrorists.
You can't apply conventional warfare tactics to this brand of enemy. They've been trying to tell you people that this is a different kind of enemy. Not the kind the government had in 1949.
I'm not for nor against it. It's irrelevant to me.
What's relevant to me is that we understand just how far these savages are willing to go to cause destruction and death to Americans.
They're not worried about being treated like humans, such as a conventional POW of an enemy country would be in a conventional war. Those people actually WANT to live.
These terrorists don't. They want to die and take you with 'em so they can become a martyr. It's an entirely different physchological wasteland that me must now enter.
The liberal mantra of change and progressive thinking seems to come to a screeching halt whenever it doesn't involve taking rights away from Americans, or furthering their agenda.
Friedman says it more eloquently than i could have:: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/o...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Especially this part:
Especially this part:
The whole truth is not being disclosed, safe guards to protect the weasels are in place. The disclosures were worded to give the slant desired. This is a political football being used to embarrass opposition to the current regime.
The only problem I have with these techniques is they are not being used on the traitors in our own government to find out how far they have gone and will go to damage the United States of America. Feinstein makes me ill.
The only problem I have with these techniques is they are not being used on the traitors in our own government to find out how far they have gone and will go to damage the United States of America. Feinstein makes me ill.
The next time I care about a terrorist being tortured will be the first time. I personally don't like that they are detained, just shoot them on the spot.
I was against tortue, until I heard a talking head say, " If they had Obama's daughter do you think he would waterboard them?" "But he won't do it for your son or daughter." Made sense to me.
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