If you are going to take it that far one way, you have to take it that far the other way. Those three guys have connections to terrorist organizations and have explosive materials in the back of a van. Let's wait until after they blow up a building to be sure if they are terrorists or not. Wouldn't want to hurt any innocent people. Hey, if they kill a couple thousand Americans it is worth it right? I wonder if more innocent people got unfairly waterboarded by the U.S., or if more people died in 9/11?
News Article: Senate CIA torture report released
- Thread starter Bamaro
- Start date
I do believe in the Constitution. I also know what's in the Quran and what it teaches.
If you're a Muslim, you follow the Quran. Period. That's the entire point that these groups like ISIS are trying to make. If you call yourself a Muslim, but aren't out doing what they're doing... then you're not Muslim. You're not following the Quran. It's very clear in it's instructions to deceive, and kill the infidel. Allah... "The Great Deceiver".
For the record they were born in the US. Doesn't necessarily make me disagree with you regarding just letting them go and be done with it.
You almost had me. However, if the administration is to be trusted, and the practices that are in this report ended in 2009 when Obama said "Hey you guys stop waterboarding." then the incidents as you described should have increased due to the inability to waterboard terrorists. Granted we don't actually know whether they have stopped, we also don't know how many of these incidents were stopped due to regular interrogation/investigative practices. Can't we at least agree, that if waterboarding was so effective, and we quit using it, we would have had more attacks because we didn't use it?
Look I can get on board with the premise that in war, there are philosophical boundaries that occasionally will be crossed in the heat of the moment. To believe that the US has actually stopped using methods that are less than humane would be naive. It is simply my position, and I think the position that this report has taken, that to have a carte blanche "do whatever it takes, here is a manual on how to do it" approach is counterproductive and creates more problems than it solves due to creating an attitude of indifference by dehumanizing the enemy (see Abu Ghraib). They do a good enough job of it on their own with their beheading videos.
I didn't complain, I used it as an example to show you that we don't detain people because they have brownish skin and know a few people named Muhammad. If they're detained, it's for good reason.
The point however, is twofold. There's still too many here that need to be detained that haven't been. They're already here. Living among us. Secondly, READ THE QURAN.
You must see for yourself what this religion teaches. You people cannot really be this is the dark... are you?
The kids were born in the US, which proves my point. Just because you're a US citizen because your parents immigrated here, doesn't mean you like America. These parents by their own admission, kept their kids submersed in the teachings of Islam, and away from American culture.
Why the hell are these people here if they don't like it here, don't subscribe to what we stand for, and hate our culture? Because they CAN.... that's why.
If you think these are the only "innocent" Muslims here that are facilitating this type of behavior, unfortunately, you're terribly mistaken. You folks better wake up. And fast. This isn't what it looks like. Their entire principle is built on deception. It's there for you all to read in their scripture.
Again, I specified international terrorist and that is the people that this thread has to do with. What you are mentioning, you and I may be much closer to agreement than you think.
I just did. Are you coming or not?
But before you do, know this... I'm not a Christian. Secondly, I have a 19 year old stepdaughter that's living with a Muslim here from Jordan.
Let's go.
No thanks, there are already other threads pointing out suspect bible verses.
We won WWII without restoring to the tactics the Germans (and especially the Japanese) resorted to trying to get informations from POWs.
Don't mistake ethical / moral boundaries for weakness - otherwise you crap on the graves of many brave men (like the SEALs in Lone Survivor) who chose to do the right thing in the face of potentially (almost certainly) dire consequences. I suspect you'd think twice before looking Marcuss Luttrell in the eye and telling him he's soft.
I am not talking about our military being soft, I am talking about the leaders of our country.
Ohh good grief. Didn't MC mention in this very thread he was a veteran and yet here you are berating him with proper respect for his brothers in arms?
I realize you freelance as a WWII historian and enjoy your posts but I don't know how you could think the American populace and its leaders would have the stomach to win a war such as we did WWII. Firebombing and atomic bombs come to mind.
Last edited:
Even though I was replying to another post, fair enough 200 vs how many died in 9/11. They won.
Oh I believe we would, we just haven't faced anything like the Axis of WWII.
Yah, people have said that for years, yet we really haven't faced anything where we needed to be 'tough' since WWII.
Public opinion polling in June 1945:
13% of the respondents wanted to continue the war until the US had "killed all Japanese."
Another 33% wanted to destroy the Japanese state.
It would take a lot for the US populace to get back to this level of bloodthirstiness. It could possibly happen.
Maybe if we have another Bush in the White House in 2017 the Democrats will be there, or if we have another Clinton in the White House in 2017, the Republicans will be there.
Or if Honey Booboo gets a new show everyone will be there.
Pure conjecture, of course, but I don't think we're as weak or as 'civilized' as some think - it just takes the right pressure.
The problem is that the leadership in America rearranged our priorities of fighting wars. It's be politically correct first, win the war second. This began with the liberal movements decades ago, and it's where we went wrong in Vietnam.
The majority of American people over the age of 45 or so realize this. That's why so many believe that this version of the United States doesn't have the stomach to win another war like WWII.
I fear so much for our men and women in the military because we don't send them into battle to WIN anymore. We send them over there to places like the Middle East to play pattycake with these savages that employ guerilla warfare tactics, so the liberals in suits back here can play politics and "not offend anybody". They want our soldiers over there playing police instead of soldier.
The United States isn't nearly as united as it was 70 years ago. We've become too diverse and too politically correct as a society. We have a president standing up there preaching to the world about "who we are". I don't know who the "we" is he's referring to, because nothing that has ever came from his mouth represents me.
The majority of American people over the age of 45 or so realize this. That's why so many believe that this version of the United States doesn't have the stomach to win another war like WWII.
I fear so much for our men and women in the military because we don't send them into battle to WIN anymore. We send them over there to places like the Middle East to play pattycake with these savages that employ guerilla warfare tactics, so the liberals in suits back here can play politics and "not offend anybody". They want our soldiers over there playing police instead of soldier.
The United States isn't nearly as united as it was 70 years ago. We've become too diverse and too politically correct as a society. We have a president standing up there preaching to the world about "who we are". I don't know who the "we" is he's referring to, because nothing that has ever came from his mouth represents me.
Last edited:
Latest threads
-
SEC West Showdown Sends Alabama to Oxford to Meet with Ole Miss- Started by Diamond Tide
- Replies: 0
-
Davis II Named to Stopper of the Year Midseason Watch List
- Started by Diamond Tide
- Replies: 0
-
Eleven-Run Third Powers Alabama to 14-5 Win over Samford
- Started by Diamond Tide
- Replies: 0
-
Maybe aTm's Pockets Aren't So Bottomless After All -- Layoffs In The Athletic Department
- Started by 4Q Basket Case
- Replies: 9
-
Time to un-vacate 2005-2007 on field victories and un-forfeit the 1993 season?
- Started by CmdrThor
- Replies: 24
-