If they had a member of your family. Would you ask really tough questions, or take them apart?
News Article: Senate CIA torture report released
- Thread starter Bamaro
- Start date
It pretty much is, gathering info to prevent lives from being lost in the future.Thats NOT the situation
what i would or wouldn't do for a member of my family has no bearing on what a nation should do
I hate when the whole board teams up against me.
You guys keep being soft. I know how I'm calling, to get me the information I need.
Reading through this thread only confirms my belief that the United States will not be able to survive a major war. We have too many softies that do not understand that war is not a pretty. You can not win if you are not willing to do what is absolutely necessary to win. You can not play by rules driven by morals if the people that want to destroy you, your family, your beliefs, your freedoms your country do not share those same morals and are willing to win through any means necessary. Our politicians fail to realize this. They tell the people who are trained and know firsthand what it will take to win what to do against the advice of the experts. "Do not shoot unless shot at" mentality is weak in war. This is not a football game where you have officials to regulate how the game is played and make sure the game is played fair but instead it is about defeating those who want to destroy you.
Those who do not understand this, I feel sorry for your family if it came down to you having to take a life to save your family's life. I know that I hope and pray that I will never have to make that decision but I will protect my family, my country and our freedoms by any means necessary.
When I was a kid, I was smaller than many of the other neighborhood kids. A few of them would bully me after school. I would try to defend myself "fairly" but would continue to get my butt whipped. I finally realized that fighting fair was never going to work because they were much bigger and stronger than me and if I continued to fight fair they would continue to beat me up. So, one day I was tired of it and was determined to make it end. Walking home from school I came to the field where they would wait. I picked a stick and started beating the biggest one with it. then when the stick broke I gouged his eyes and bit him. I kicked him in the groin and by then he was on the ground and I continued hitting him. I didn't have to worry about walking past that field again.
Those who do not understand this, I feel sorry for your family if it came down to you having to take a life to save your family's life. I know that I hope and pray that I will never have to make that decision but I will protect my family, my country and our freedoms by any means necessary.
When I was a kid, I was smaller than many of the other neighborhood kids. A few of them would bully me after school. I would try to defend myself "fairly" but would continue to get my butt whipped. I finally realized that fighting fair was never going to work because they were much bigger and stronger than me and if I continued to fight fair they would continue to beat me up. So, one day I was tired of it and was determined to make it end. Walking home from school I came to the field where they would wait. I picked a stick and started beating the biggest one with it. then when the stick broke I gouged his eyes and bit him. I kicked him in the groin and by then he was on the ground and I continued hitting him. I didn't have to worry about walking past that field again.
that's not even remotely on point. look, if you in good conscience want to justify torture, have at it.
maybe you can elect folks who will pass a law to remove us from the geneva conventions
If that is what it takes to save hundreds and maybe thousands of lives then yes, I could have a good conscience even though I hated that it had to happen. My conscience would feel much more guilt if I sat around and did nothing then hundreds of people were killed due to my unwillingness of taking the steps that could have prevented it.
And it is very much on point. If our government could have gathered information that would have prevented an attack on a building that you and your family were in but instead they did nothing, would you be ok with that?
Last edited:
This is not in reference to anyone in specific.
Does anyone but me find it ironic that likely the very same people who decry big government taking steps to protect health and safety via programs and agencies such as Obamacare, the EPA, and the FCC are the very same people who would have no problem handing over the "do whatever it takes mandate" to protect them from future unguaranteed attacks?
I should eat more veggies? HOW DARE YOU INFRINGE MY FREEDOMS AND RIGHTS! DOWN WITH BIG GOVERNMENT!
This guy is vaguely brown, knows a few guys named Muhammed, and likes disco music. KEEP ME SAFE, WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO. I AM NOT SAYING WATERBOARD HIM, BUT IF HE ACCIDENTALLY GETS WATERBOARDED, I UNDERSTAND.
Does anyone but me find it ironic that likely the very same people who decry big government taking steps to protect health and safety via programs and agencies such as Obamacare, the EPA, and the FCC are the very same people who would have no problem handing over the "do whatever it takes mandate" to protect them from future unguaranteed attacks?
I should eat more veggies? HOW DARE YOU INFRINGE MY FREEDOMS AND RIGHTS! DOWN WITH BIG GOVERNMENT!
This guy is vaguely brown, knows a few guys named Muhammed, and likes disco music. KEEP ME SAFE, WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO. I AM NOT SAYING WATERBOARD HIM, BUT IF HE ACCIDENTALLY GETS WATERBOARDED, I UNDERSTAND.
We aren't talking about U.S. citizens here but instead talking about international terrorist.
We are not talking about U.S. citizens but known international terrorist. Much different.
Water boarded individuals must have a physician at side and be told before it is done they will not die. Just one example of a safeguard, others exist for other tactics. This isn't disclosed in the public accounts because that would not play to the narrative. The current government and media are not on our side unless it benefits them and their agenda.
And here is where I have a major disconnect with you. A terrorists, by very definition, is someone who incites terror. There have been people labeled as terrorists in the US. It is a label. Government agencies have already turned their ears and eyes inward with regards to communications, what makes you think that this behavior will always be applied to only international terrorists? Think of the idiotic children from the US and Britain that have run off deluded by ISIS slick marketing to join the new caliphate. Should they be tortured if they know something? Obama and Holder have already decided that US Citizenship mean nothing when they ordered a drone strike to kill a US citizen upon nothing more than CIA intelligence. Due process, as we have come to expect in the courts, was tossed right out the window. So now there is precedence that if someone is suspected of being a terrorist, albeit on foreign soil, their rights are no longer inviolate.
Giving up the expectation of due process and in the case of torture, basic human decency, out of a sense of fear is a great way nudge a nation state over into the dystopian police/dictatorship that many already believe the US has become.
Remember, as many on the right are oft repeating, governments never willingly give power back to the people. What is a terrorist to the current regime is nothing more than a label reapplication tomorrow, often depending upon the ideology of those in power.
Links:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-were-the-4-us-citizens-killed-in-drone-strikes/
First of all, these future attacks ARE guaranteed. These terrorist groups make a video every other day holding someone's decapitated head telling you that they're going to. Every week there's a terror attack thwarted ahead of time. Some are reported, some are not. They're not going to stop just because we start trying to be politically correct in how we deal with 'em.
Secondly, you don't get detained because you have brown skin and know a few people named Muhammad. We let them build mosques here and practice the very religion that's trying to destroy us for pete's sake.
"Wrongfully held" is the liberal democrat word for "there was enough evidence to believe they were tied to a terrorist group, but they haven't actually blown themselves up and killed a bunch of people yet".
Meh. I guess I'm just not a very good person because this doesn't bother me much. Life is cruel and tough and Americans for the most part are insulated from those realities, especially in regards to war.
Selfishly, I'd rather a few terrorists or those aiding and abetting their organizations be 'tortured' than my phone and Internet communications being illegally spied on or me waiting in 2 hour long lines to go through airport security. I also believe this is just the surface of what actually happen. In other words, we know what we are allowed to know. I'm not of the mindset of "do whatever it takes O' Great Government" but I'm not naive enough to believe certain undesirable actions aren't required in the world today. Frankly, I'm glad there's people that will get their hands dirty and get down on the terrorist sub-human level so the rest of the country is insulated from it. Are there mistakes and injustices being made daily? Sure, but that's part of the price being paid.
Selfishly, I'd rather a few terrorists or those aiding and abetting their organizations be 'tortured' than my phone and Internet communications being illegally spied on or me waiting in 2 hour long lines to go through airport security. I also believe this is just the surface of what actually happen. In other words, we know what we are allowed to know. I'm not of the mindset of "do whatever it takes O' Great Government" but I'm not naive enough to believe certain undesirable actions aren't required in the world today. Frankly, I'm glad there's people that will get their hands dirty and get down on the terrorist sub-human level so the rest of the country is insulated from it. Are there mistakes and injustices being made daily? Sure, but that's part of the price being paid.
Do you believe in our constitution or not?:conf2:
Wrongfully held is probably CIA speak.
I'm glad you brought this up since we just recently had 3 Muslim teenagers arrested at the airport for trying to go join ISIS. Of course, their "good" Muslim parents had no idea. All they did was do the best they could to shield them from anything and everything of the American culture, and keep them submersed in the teachings of the Muslim religion.
But never in a million years did it ever cross their mind that this was going to be the outcome. But we allow this to go on right here in our own country. Right here in our own cities. Surely you digress...
These people are only US citizens because we'll let anybody "be" one now that wants to be. It doesn't matter if they hate everything we stand for, just as long as they're here to reap the government benefits from our programs, and go to our universities to learn math and science.
They shouldn't be tortured...no. They should be allowed to fly their butts over there to Turkey.... with no possible chance to return. Then give them their wish by sending them on their way to their 72 virgins and martyring them with an airstrike.
Next.
Latest threads
-
Final Home Midweek for Alabama Brings Samford to The Joe- Started by Diamond Tide
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
-
-
I'd like to hear about some actual prayer requests that have been answered the way it made sense to answer them.- Started by Labrador
- Replies: 13