Rick Neuheisel on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

Do we really run a HUNH...or is just a NH? In my opinion we are just running a NH, which will speed the game up, but a true HUNH is what we see auburn doing. The boogs want to line up and snap it before the defense can get set. You see malzahn rolling his hands, fussing at the refs to get out of the way. In our version Sims is always looking to the sideline to get the call and then lining up his players. I don't know, just my opinion, but true HUNH is meant to try and catch the defense not ready and I don't really see us doing it that way.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

oregonbltzkrieg said:

Not that interesting coming from a UCLA/UW homer. Neuweasel is the bum that had the Huskies come out and dance on the "O" after their last victory over the ducks. That was 11 years ago. He's also a tool who hasn't done his homework.

LT: Jake Fisher 6'6" 299 SR
LG: Hamani Stevens 6'3" 303 RS SR
C: Hroniss Grasu 6'3" 297 RS SR
RG: Cameron Hunt 6'4" 285 SO
RT: Tyrell Crosby 6'5" 290 FR
Average: 6'3.5" 294.8 lbs

FSU DL (taken from an FSU site)

Mario Edwards: 6'3" 294
Eddie Goldman: 6'4" 314
Derek Mitchell: 6'4" 292
DeMarcus Walker: 6'3" 273
Backups:
Derek Nnadi 6'2" 300
Chris Cashier 6'4" 243
Justin Shanks 6'2" 322


Doesn't seem that "outsized" to me.

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Don't take this personally, but that OL looks a bit smallish.

By contrast:
Cam Robinson - 6'6", 323
Arie Kouandijo - 6'5", 315
Ryan Kelly - 6'5", 296
Leon Brown - 6'6", 320
Austin Shepherd - 6'5", 320
Average: 6'5.3, 314.8

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

mrusso said:

Do we really run a HUNH...or is just a NH? In my opinion we are just running a NH, which will speed the game up, but a true HUNH is what we see auburn doing. The boogs want to line up and snap it before the defense can get set. You see malzahn rolling his hands, fussing at the refs to get out of the way. In our version Sims is always looking to the sideline to get the call and then lining up his players. I don't know, just my opinion, but true HUNH is meant to try and catch the defense not ready and I don't really see us doing it that way.

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Good point.

We run HUNH a little bit, but mostly NH. We are snapping the ball with single digits on the clock a lot of the time.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

Maybe just my erroneous observation, but in the SEC O lines typically run 15-25 lbs heavier than the opponents Dline. Dlines make up for this in speed and quickness/using nose guard to occupy multiple Oline members allowing LBs to make plays. Re: Oregon your o line will actually be no larger than the FSU/UA d line and in muliple matchups actually be smaller and I would offer the d will generally still be quicker and stronger. Of course, scheme can off set this especially in the beginning of the game but has a tendancy to fail over the couse of a game. JHMO.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

skrayper77 said:

Don't take this personally, but that OL looks a bit smallish.

By contrast:
Cam Robinson - 6'6", 323
Arie Kouandijo - 6'5", 315
Ryan Kelly - 6'5", 296
Leon Brown - 6'6", 320
Austin Shepherd - 6'5", 320
Average: 6'5.3, 314.8

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Well That's the thing, the Oline is usually bigger than the Dline. Early on. Quicker Big guys with agility are moved to the defense because they have to get after backs and QBs, No need for that most of the time with lineman because they just have to block. Of course some pull and the left tackle needs to be tall and athletic, but that statement generally holds true. It usually isn't good when the Oline and Dline are the same size.
I have watched 2 Oregon games. And the style of play calls for a more athletic Oline so that may explain the smaller size. I know the option attack of GT allows for smaller , more athletic Olinemen. If we learned anything from that game we learned that type of line can give FSU problems. Unfortunately, I think the Ducks win this game by about 12 points. I say unfortunately because I wanted Mr Winston's home state team to beat him.



BTW, I guess Neuheisel did not watch Oregon /Michigan St

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

oregonbltzkrieg said:

If we're only talking top 25 we would have to remove quite a few opponents from all 4 teams' resumes.

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True, but Alabama has faced two that meet that criteria (#12 Auburn, #20 MSU) and two more just shy of it (#28 Arky, #29 LSU) while Oregon hasn't faced any. FSU has faced two as well (#3 GT, #15 BC). Ohio State has faced a lot of them (#2 Navy, #4 Wiscy, #10 Indiana, #24 Mich State).

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

skrayper77 said:

True, but Alabama has faced two that meet that criteria (#12 Auburn, #20 MSU) and two more just shy of it (#28 Arky, #29 LSU) while Oregon hasn't faced any. FSU has faced two as well (#3 GT, #15 BC). Ohio State has faced a lot of them (#2 Navy, #4 Wiscy, #10 Indiana, #24 Mich State).

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Uh, Oregon played Michigan State. Can't count it for OSU and not for the ducks, can you?

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

oregonbltzkrieg said:

Not that interesting coming from a UCLA/UW homer. Neuweasel is the bum that had the Huskies come out and dance on the "O" after their last victory over the ducks. That was 11 years ago. He's also a tool who hasn't done his homework.

LT: Jake Fisher 6'6" 299 SR
LG: Hamani Stevens 6'3" 303 RS SR
C: Hroniss Grasu 6'3" 297 RS SR
RG: Cameron Hunt 6'4" 285 SO
RT: Tyrell Crosby 6'5" 290 FR
Average: 6'3.5" 294.8 lbs

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I will agree with you all day on Neuheisel being a tool, but with all due respect, Alabama (and most other SEC teams) has not had an offensive line that small since the early 1990s.

Obviously the OL is still going to be bigger than the DL -- that's basically always a given for non-triple option offenses, regardless of OL size in question -- but the Oregon OL will likely be one of the smallest lines FSU has faced this season, and it will be a challenge for Oregon. Neuheisal is what he is, but in general I think he's right that OL play will generally be an obstacle that Oregon has to overcome in the playoff. Not saying it can't be negotiated well enough, but if Oregon's hopes hinge upon outright winning that battle in the trenches, it's probably going to be a quick exit barring some superhuman showing by Mariota or that defense.

You'll find that I'll gladly eat my crow if I'm wrong, but I'm going into the FSU v. Oregon game with the assumption that Oregon won't be able to run the ball on the defensive interior very well and that Mariota is really going to have to live up to the hype to put a good number of points on the scoreboard. I figure Oregon's hope hings upon whether that OL can do enough to give Mariota a chance, and whether the Oregon defense can stop Winston and company enough such that the Oregon offense doesn't need 35+ points to win it.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

bamaga said:

Uh, Oregon played Michigan State. Can't count it for OSU and not for the ducks, can you?

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I missed it - I was trying to eyeball it.

So, yes, OU has played 1, @ #24.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

oregonbltzkrieg said:

It's interesting but also strange to see Bama go HUNH, even more so after Saban decried it last year. Kiffin has obviously had an impact in that department. It's interesting, but I'm not sure how well that approach would work against a team that faces it in just about every game every year. Of all the teams in the playoffs, Oregon has the most experience with Kiffin. Ground and pound seems a better bet.

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I've seen media and opposing fans criticize Saban for his seemingly contradictory position in adopting elements of the HUNH at times this year. I don't think it is contradictory at all. His position on the HUNH is that it isn't what he wants for the good of the game. He has voiced his opinion repeatedly on this subject asking "Is this what we want football to be". That's a philosophical disagreement with what the rules are allowing offenses to do. Obviously, his thoughts on the subject were ignored as the rules stayed the same and the HUNH is here to stay for the foreseeable future.

Understanding that the rules are in place and that they provide advantages to the offense, he is taking advantage of them. There's an older ESPN article from maybe 2 years ago where he said we would likely head in this direction if the game doesn't change. He also mentioned that we would likely shift to having more of a dual threat QB. To me the positions aren't contradictory at all. He doesn't prefer this type of football for the good of the game, but at the end of the day he wants to and is hired to win games. He will do whatever is necessary to do that, even if it involves running elements of an offense that he doesn't like.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

RollTide1224 said:

I've seen media and opposing fans criticize Saban for his seemingly contradictory position in adopting elements of the HUNH at times this year. I don't think it is contradictory at all. His position on the HUNH is that it isn't what he wants for the good of the game. He has voiced his opinion repeatedly on this subject asking "Is this what we want football to be". That's a philosophical disagreement with what the rules are allowing offenses to do. Obviously, his thoughts on the subject were ignored as the rules stayed the same and the HUNH is here to stay for the foreseeable future.

Understanding that the rules are in place and that they provide advantages to the offense, he is taking advantage of them. There's an older ESPN article from maybe 2 years ago where he said we would likely head in this direction if the game doesn't change. He also mentioned that we would likely shift to having more of a dual threat QB. To me the positions aren't contradictory at all. He doesn't prefer this type of football for the good of the game, but at the end of the day he wants to and is hired to win games. He will do whatever is necessary to do that, even if it involves running elements of an offense that he doesn't like.

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I agree completely and could not have said it better myself. He is doing it out of necessity, but I hope some changes are made to protect the game because I don't consider 60-55 scores to be real football. I don't think Saban does either.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

oregonbltzkrieg said:

That statement may have been true in the past, but it's simply not true this year.

Oregon has played 4 teams (1 of them twice) who are in the top 50 of rushing offenses (5 games). FSU has played 3 in the top 50 (3 games). Ohio State has played 5 games. Alabama has played 5 games.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing

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yeah but 1 in the top 30... and you guys were playing with big leads which discourages the run. if you're not playing elite run defenses and you're putting up average stats the best you can say about yourself is that you're an average run D. which is fine. its just the truth.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

Rick Neuheisal is a liar, a terrible coach and a dufus.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

While I believe FSU is superior to Oregon in almost every way on paper, when it comes to playing the games they have played with serious fire all year against very mediocre competition and barely won most of their games.

Oregon will be the best team they've faced by far. If FSU is focused, I believe they will win. If they turn in the effort they have all year long, I think the Winston train will finally derail.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

Oregon has not played a team like FSU all year. FSU has not played a team like Oregon all year. So I think those type statements are a wash.

I think it will come down to the trenches, as it usually does. There are different approaches to OLines and DLines. Bigger, stronger doesn't always beat quicker.

The truth is that Alabama & Oregon are so very similar once you get beyond the surface. For years, Alabama was the big, physical, punishing team. And we were successful. Very successful. But....our DL was getting gassed vs the fastest teams and we were giving up runs up the middle. It's not like the wheels were coming off, but as more teams moved to this offense it was something that we needed to address. And we did. We got quicker and deeper on the DLine and at LB.

For years, Oregon was so close. Excruciatingly close. But the more physical teams took their jack-rabbit quickness and exposed their lack of physicality. Oregon needed to get a little bigger and a little more physical. And they have. Alabama isn't Oregon and Oregon isn't Alabama but the differences aren't as great as they once were. IMHO, FSU is similar to Alabama of a few years ago and if not for an improbable play in Auburn in 2013 we would have stomped FSU in the NC game. I expect Oregon to win. I think Oregon can match most of the physicality that FSU will bring but I think FSU will struggle with the speed of Oregon.

I also think that the Ducks would view playing Alabama as the culmination of a decade of struggling for real national respect. Oregon may be the hungriest of the 4 teams.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

AgentAntiOrange said:

... Oregon may be the hungriest of the 4 teams.

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Easily - they know that a loss to FSU will reduce them to Boise State status in the minds of most college football fans. This is their Alamo. Each of the other three want this as much, but will not be as desperate, IMO.

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

I like the good ole, you guys should pound the ball and not try to get in a shootout with us, talk. I have a feeling it might be a one sided "shootout".

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

Re: Rick Neuheisal on Oregon and the Playoff scenario

B1GTide said:

Easily - they know that a loss to FSU will reduce them to Boise State status in the minds of most college football fans. This is their Alamo. Each of the other three want this as much, but will not be as desperate, IMO.

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Why exactly would a loss to the defending champs who won 29 straight games be that detrimental? Boise State? Would Ohio State be reduced to Rutgers status if it lost to Alabama? Lol. We're one of the 4 teams who made it all the way to the playoffs. A loss here by any of these four teams will not be detrimental to any of the programs.