Link: Saban's pass defense explained...
- Thread starter TIDE-HSV
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Very in depth article. My main concern is the one on one match ups we consistently get beat on.
At this point it surely can't just be bad luck this season. The word is they are not taught to look for the ball until they are 'In phase' with the WR or in other words step for step blanket coverage.
Yet to our DB's credit they have for the most part been in blanket coverage the last two months but still not locating the ball. Are our guys just not instinctive enough to do it?
I have noticed more WR offensive push offs going on and not getting called but the tight coverage passes getting through is becoming beyond frustrating.
If we we could clean that one area up and never attempt FG's the rest of the year I have no doubt we win #16.
At this point it surely can't just be bad luck this season. The word is they are not taught to look for the ball until they are 'In phase' with the WR or in other words step for step blanket coverage.
Yet to our DB's credit they have for the most part been in blanket coverage the last two months but still not locating the ball. Are our guys just not instinctive enough to do it?
I have noticed more WR offensive push offs going on and not getting called but the tight coverage passes getting through is becoming beyond frustrating.
If we we could clean that one area up and never attempt FG's the rest of the year I have no doubt we win #16.
The push-offs are getting maddening. It's very frustrating to see a DB have good coverage and see the receiver clear out by a last second push - with no flag. If the rules are on the book, then they need to be enforced - on both sides...
I think AU's completions, even more than MU's, were the most frustrating. We had the receiver bookended between CJ and Landon. All three come up and their receiver comes down with the ball. That's not to say their receivers didn't have good position, especially with the last second push, it's just that past safeties would have knocked that ball down...
bamas D has been pretty darn good this year. everybody talks about our corners like they cant cover an 8th grader... it kind of upsets me. Mizzou was a product of losing contain... not bad corners. Auburn was Eddie Jackson having an inexplicably, uncharacteristically bad game. WVU was against a biletnikoff finalist. our corners arent bad. Yeah maybe we dont have a top 15 pick at corner like normal, but in no way are they bad. all of our secondary individually would get a starting slot, or at least heavy playing rotation at any school in the country.
IIRC the idea of playing defense is to keep people from scoring, and even including giving up 44 to auburn bama is number 4 in scoring D, and is 2nd in TD's allowed. we're fine. we've always been fine. we will continue to be fine.
IIRC the idea of playing defense is to keep people from scoring, and even including giving up 44 to auburn bama is number 4 in scoring D, and is 2nd in TD's allowed. we're fine. we've always been fine. we will continue to be fine.
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I understand that but it is happening to us at an alarmingly high rate. More than just the avg amount and more than just 'thems the breaks bad luck'.
It's getting to be part offensive pass interference not being called and part our guys not playing the ball while being 'in phase'.
I agree too in that the safeties don't seem to be helping out as much as past players either. Perry and Landon are letting stuff get through in assistance that past guys like Barron, HaHa, Sunseri, Lester, Woodall, and Rashad Johnson just wouldn't allow.
I vehemently disagree. if we were getting beaten vertically at "an alarmingly high rate" we would not be 2nd in TD's allowed in FBS.
The way we play requires guys to play bump and run vertically. it always has. We've always been susceptible to the deep ball if we give the opposing QB too much time or we lose contain. so was LSU when saban was there.
These are our scoring D numbers since 2007
2014- 4th
2013- 4th
2012- 1st
2011- 1st
2010- 5th
2009- 1st
2008- 6th
during this whole period we've always left guys in one on ones and we've gotten burned a few times. The difference between this year and other years is that our corners are excellent but not elite.we still have a top 10 secondary in college football. we just dont have an elite first round shut down guy like we're used to.
I agree with most of what you say but TD's allowed is not telling the whole story. A good amount of the times we are getting beat vertically don't always go the distance but still get the opponent into the Redzone.
We are playing extremely well with the shortened field but the vertical bombs are eating us up between the 20's and it is alarmingly high compared to past Defenses we've had.
I'm not trying to bash and I know there are many reasons it's happening. WR's are pushing off and getting away with it, EJ still isn't at full speed, Slyve was lost early in the season but the light bulb is on now, It took Cyrus a month to get settled, QB's are creating sandlot plays etc etc.
But still we are not playing deep passes well either because the CB's are not looking for the ball, or they do look and just miss batting the ball by an eyelash, or the safties are not arriving in time to assist or they do get there but also miss knocking the ball down.
We have the talent but we just can't seem to catch a break on these plays and the refs are not calling the push offs.
If we can just eliminate half of the errors we will be on the way to #16 but if we don't get better our luck might run out and the plays won't end with tackles at the 5-15 yrd line...they will be TD's.
I disagree that "we have the talent" to be a lot better than we are. all the guys we have that are elite talents are very young. we're playing with cyrus and sylve as two of our top 3 corners. both started at UA on offense. We moved them because we had holes. Our guys have played really well and to their abilities for the most part. Take away the auburn game and we're #1 in scoring D. We're still top 5. we cant be the 85 bears every year. its an unrealistic expectation to have the #1 D in college football every year.
The scheme puts a lot of pressure on CB's. there arent 5 sets of corners in the country you could trade ours for and get better results
Good thread topic and discussion. Don't forget that one of the reasons that you fail so often is because you are tested so often on these plays. Your defense really only has 1 weakness - the middle against running QBs. You get beat on long pass plays just like everyone else. It happens. But you only get beat consistently when the QB is a scrambler who buys the WR extra time to get open. This is a problem at every level, including the NFL.
You cannot blame a DB for not being able to adjust multiple times to route changes by a WR as he improvises for 10 seconds hoping that his QB will throw the ball down the field to him. Go out in the back yard and try it with your friends. It can't be done. Eventually, the WR makes a move and gets separation. At that point, it is over - think Kiffin throwing up his arms to celebrate a TD - it is that over if the QB sees him and makes a good throw. The DB cannot make a play on the ball - it is too late.
Your ability to effect this is limited to your ability to limit the time that a QB can scramble - almost impossible to do when the QBs are quicker/faster than your d-linemen and LBs.
You cannot blame a DB for not being able to adjust multiple times to route changes by a WR as he improvises for 10 seconds hoping that his QB will throw the ball down the field to him. Go out in the back yard and try it with your friends. It can't be done. Eventually, the WR makes a move and gets separation. At that point, it is over - think Kiffin throwing up his arms to celebrate a TD - it is that over if the QB sees him and makes a good throw. The DB cannot make a play on the ball - it is too late.
Your ability to effect this is limited to your ability to limit the time that a QB can scramble - almost impossible to do when the QBs are quicker/faster than your d-linemen and LBs.
I've seen physics equations less complicated. Felt like the article was written in Sanskrit or something
Yeah. They let both the offensive and defensive players make lots of contact now. I'd like to see the ratio of offensive to defensive pass interference. I doubt its more than 1:10.
Simple is the WR knows where he is going the DB has to react. Hence, the innate advantage starts with the receivers. It is the sole reason coach looks for world class speedsters (literally) for the recovery aspect. We have two that I think will be sick cover corners in the fold now.
I agree S play is likely the biggest difference. LC is an awesome S and plays exceptional run support, but he doesn't have the ball skills of some of our previous safeties. Perry is also solid, but again, not the same ball skills. Even Sunseri, who wasn't exactly known for his coverage skills, seemed to have a better knack for being where the ball was being thrown and making a play when it was a deep ball. To some degree I think that's why when we have gone into the dime package this year, both LC and Perry have been playing closer to the line and we are putting guys like Washington and M Smith into the deeper spots.
That said, HaHa got beat pretty good by A&M a couple of years ago with deep throws also. Part of the challenge is that some of these receivers beating us like this are HUGE and the QB is essentially putting up a ball for a rebound. the 6'4" guy will beat the 6'0" or 6'2" guy for a rebound most of the time, even if the shorter guy has good positioning. The Qbs that scramble and extend plays then allows the extra tall guys time to get just a little space and that's all they need.
I had an easier time understanding an airport bond indenture the other day. Wow...
I find it interesting that Saban doesn't really teach his DB's to backpedal. Rather, he teaches a "shuffle" technique. It's much more difficult to react to shorter routes if you're backpedaling.
http://smartfootball.com/tag/defensive-back#sthash.DoyrMu9j.dpbs
This is why a lot of Saban's defensive backs seem to take longer adjusting once they get to the NFL. It's then that they must learn to backpedal. You can't stay in press technique consistently in the NFL against beasts like Dez Bryant or Calvin Johnson. If you miss the jam at the LOS, it's over. Espcially with the caliber of quarterbacks throwing the football.
http://smartfootball.com/tag/defensive-back#sthash.DoyrMu9j.dpbs
This is why a lot of Saban's defensive backs seem to take longer adjusting once they get to the NFL. It's then that they must learn to backpedal. You can't stay in press technique consistently in the NFL against beasts like Dez Bryant or Calvin Johnson. If you miss the jam at the LOS, it's over. Espcially with the caliber of quarterbacks throwing the football.
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