Sydney Hostage taking.

cbi1972 said:

It's not possible to be a good American while openly waging war against a religion

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Islam is not a religion. It's a political movement under the guise of religion designed to dominate the world and overthrow governments by virtue of deception based on it's very own scripture.

It's maxim is that Islam should dominate the world by whatever means necessary required to achieve it.

You see, in an actual religion - particularly those of peace, religion itself is a part of life. In Islam, religion isn't just a part of life. Rather, life is but a tiny part of religion. Thus everything in life is dominated by this "religion".

Islam is a system. It's a socio-political, socio-religous, socio-economical, socio-educational, socio-legislative, socio-judicial, and socio-militaristic system garbed in religious terminology.

Open your eyes my friend. Ignorance is not an excuse.

The leftist extremists in this country are all over everything that anyone finds offensive. Even if it's Christianity. There's already been war declared on Christians in this country by Americans. The hypocrisy of the liberal left is where their argument fails.

You cannot be acceptive of any culture, or "religion" that flies so in the face of basic human rights as does Islam. So spare us all the war on religion nonsense.

The biggest problem right now lies directly in the fact that the world hasn't educated itself on the teachings of Islam. It's too dark and too evil. But rest assured, they'll educate you.

HartselleTider said:

Islam is not a religion. It's a political movement under the guise of religion designed to dominate the world and overthrow governments by virtue of deception based on it's very own scripture.

It's maxim is that Islam should dominate the world by whatever means necessary required to achieve it.

You see, in an actual religion - particularly those of peace, religion itself is a part of life. In Islam, religion isn't just a part of life. Rather, life is but a tiny part of religion. Thus everything in life is dominated by this "religion".

Islam is a system. It's a socio-political, socio-religous, socio-economical, socio-educational, socio-legislative, socio-judicial, and socio-militaristic system garbed in religious terminology.

Open your eyes my friend. Ignorance is not an excuse.

The leftist extremists in this country are all over everything that anyone finds offensive. Even if it's Christianity. There's already been war declared on Christians in this country by Americans. The hypocrisy of the liberal left is where their argument fails.

You cannot be acceptive of any culture, or "religion" that flies so in the face of basic human rights as does Islam. So spare us all the war on religion nonsense.

The biggest problem right now lies directly in the fact that the world hasn't educated itself on the teachings of Islam. It's too dark and too evil. But rest assured, they'll educate you.

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Assuming your description of Islam is accurate, what would you call the Christian church of the Middle Ages?

Bazza said:

In situations like this.....hours going by without resolution.......why couldn't a colorless and odorless sleeping gas be piped into the cafe.....something that puts everyone under long enough to storm the place and extract the bad guy?

Maybe there isn't such a gas but how about what the dentist gives you to knock you out?

My other thought is why couldn't a sniper get a shot off? Maybe the bad guy stayed hidden?

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For your viewing pleasure:

RammerJammer14 said:

For your viewing pleasure:

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Thanks RJ14....very sad.....

Perhaps this was a case of good idea but poor execution? They really pumped a LOT of gas into that building for a LONG time.....then piled the bodies on top of each other and lying up so they choked to death. That is very sad and very incompetent.

I still think the idea has merit but would have to be executed a lot better than the Russians did!

Bazza said:

Thanks RJ14....very sad.....

Perhaps this was a case of good idea but poor execution? They really pumped a LOT of gas into that building for a LONG time.....then piled the bodies on top of each other and lying up so they choked to death. That is very sad and very incompetent.

I still think the idea has merit but would have to be executed a lot better than the Russians did!

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I think the biggest problem was there seemed to be no plan to evacuate the unconscious hostages. They also banked on the antidote being effective, which it wasn't. I can't really fault them for the idea, but like you said, the execution was poor.

Somehow the Russians always seem to botch hostage rescues.

RammerJammer14 said:

Somehow the Russians always seem to botch hostage rescues.

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If you remove the value of a hostage, it makes the decision to act much easier.

Tide1986 said:

Assuming your description of Islam is accurate, what would you call the Christian church of the Middle Ages?

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Therein lies the issue. This is where the rubber meets the road. Islam the "religion" was founded on a false prophet in direct objection of Christianity in order to achieve certain political goals. You do realize Muhammad was originally a Christian?

However, how similar or dissimilar Islam and Christianity were a thousand years ago isn't what we have to deal with now in a secular society. Islam hasn't evolved, and if it doesn't, then it's teachings cannot function in a secular society.

Also, I don't believe I'm biased here. Because, from a historical context, I understand WHY Muslims FEEL the way they do towards western civilization, going all the way back to the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire. I understand WHY they FEEL the way they do towards the creation of the Jewish state. I don't believe that their FEELINGS are wrong. Whether I agree with it or not.

It's the way they've chosen to REACT to it all that has no place in society. Just because you have a grievance doesn't mean you can go around cutting people's heads off, blowing stuff up, flying planes into building, slaughtering innocent school children, and so on and so forth.

The laws of society must take precedence over whatever your religious laws are. The Quran instructs it's followers to go out and execute all this mayhem....and that's all most of these people know. It goes back to my point about how education is fatal to fundamentalism.

The jihadists don't want educated Muslims. Education is more of a threat to them than violence or allied airstrikes are. They will begin to question their faith in their prophet.

Christians live by the New Testament, so there is no comparison to ancient Islam in today's society. We hear about how Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence. That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone.

The problem is in the numbers. Statistics show that a large number of Muslims sympathize with the radicals...even if they're not the one's literally blowing themselves up. Look at the statistics of worldwide Muslims that support terror attacks on non-muslms. That's a huge problem. That's why Muslim leaders aren't jumping up and down to condemn any of these attacks.

Even the Muslims can't separate the "good" Muslims from the "bad" Muslims. You can't do it in an open society either. If you're going to open your society to the Islamic culture, then you better be ready to deal with what the Islamic culture entails.

The terrorists rely on the liberals in this country to get access in order to carry out terror attacks. They walk hand-in-hand. These terrorists are smart enough to figure that out. Liberalism is as much of a threat to America as Islam.

All you have to do is listen to what Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said to the CIA interrogator, James Mitchell, as he was being waterboarded. He looked Mitchell dead in his eyes and told him that the liberals and liberal media in his own country would turn on him someday.

The CIA got more truth out of waterboarding these terrorists than they ever wanted to hear.

RammerJammer14 said:

I think the biggest problem was there seemed to be no plan to evacuate the unconscious hostages. They also banked on the antidote being effective, which it wasn't. I can't really fault them for the idea, but like you said, the execution was poor.

Somehow the Russians always seem to botch hostage rescues.

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Was thinking some more about this......in the Sydney situation we are only dealing with one bad guy. Another possible idea would be if one of the hostages could slip him a mickey. Maybe one of the cafe workers involved in making the coffee - or able to drop something in the guy's beverage. (?)

I wasn't there of course - this may not have been even possible - but just thinking of a way to neutralize the bad guy without storming the place with guns blazing.

HartselleTider said:

Exactly. This is the ONLY way Muslims can get people (in their right mind) to accept Islam... put a gun to their head or attack non-muslims. Australia was a place where people dreamed of going on vacation and enjoying the sites, however... as the Muslim population grew in Australiam, we've seen more of these Islamic terrorist acts - i.e. recently in September, Muslims rallied the streets shouting "behead all non-muslims" and all those who insult their pedophile prophet.

The Muslim problem is just beginning here in America - here's a question that I've asked myself many times... Can a "good" Muslim be a good American?

Theologically - NO. Because a Muslim's allegiance is to Allah, the moon God of Arabia.

Religiously - NO. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - NO. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - NO. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - NO. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - NO. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - NO. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - NO. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - NO. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - NO. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.



Therefore, after a little study and deliberation, we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish, but it's still the truth. You better believe it is.

Christophobia is alive and well. But lets avoid Islamaphobia like the plague for the sake of being politically correct while they murder you, and the "good" Muslims just stand aside watching you get murdered.


The Quran tells its followers in Quran 4:89 – “They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take allies from among them until they join you for the cause of Allah. But if they reject him, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and do not take any ally or helper from among them.”


Sound peaceful to anybody? I can go on...


Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost”

Quran (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

Hadith – sayings and teachings of Muhammad:

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."



It's not possible to be both a good Muslim and a good American. You're deceiving one or the other.

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arent you supposed to provide a link when you copy and paste large amounts of other people's work?

HartselleTider said:

Christians live by the New Testament, so there is no comparison to ancient Islam in today's society. We hear about how Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence. That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone.

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Being a racist is not a crime in the United States. You can believe whatever you wish to believe. Committing crimes based on those beliefs is where we draw the line. Similarly, being a Muslim is not a crime. A Muslim is entitled to freedom of conscience and may wear robes, burqas, and face Mecca as often as they wish. Not every Muslim is carrying out crimes in accordance with your cherry-picked litany of verses inciting violence and intolerance. Inasmuch as they are not committing crimes, they are entitled to their beliefs and innocuous practices, no matter how offensive.

92tide said:

arent you supposed to provide a link when you copy and paste large amounts of other people's work?

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You almost made an entire point didn't you.

Here's the link for you: http://quran.com/

Although I'm almost positive in true liberal fashion, you're too lazy to actually use it. Just let the government read it for you.

cbi1972 said:

Being a racist is not a crime in the United States. You can believe whatever you wish to believe. Committing crimes based on those beliefs is where we draw the line. Similarly, being a Muslim is not a crime. A Muslim is entitled to freedom of conscience and may wear robes, burqas, and face Mecca as often as they wish. Not every Muslim is carrying out crimes in accordance with your cherry-picked litany of verses inciting violence and intolerance. Inasmuch as they are not committing crimes, they are entitled to their beliefs and innocuous practices, no matter how offensive.

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It's incredible how far we've fallen as a country. Believe me I'm just as enthused that I share it with people that think like you.

Not all gun owners are committing crimes, but the liberal politicians want to take those rights away from the law abiding citizens. That's why people in places like Australia or England can't defend themselves from these acts of terror. The terrorists can have 'em though.

The entire liberal agenda is built on logical fallacies. But I certainly appreciate the new calendar with all the Muslim holidays proudly displayed on it.

It's gone absurdly too far when Muslims or Sikhs have religious rights that others don't have in this country. I see it everyday.

Ya'll make sure you take your Dishdasha to the dry cleaners before the holidays. PM me if you need a new calender.

seebell said:

Ya'll make sure you take your Dishdasha to the dry cleaners before the holidays. PM me if you need a new calender.

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Do you have an extra smagh I can borrow? Mine was blown away in a sandstorm the other day.

I dread what's it going to look like once you people get done putting that liberal nimwit Hillary Clinton in the White House.

Once we're done "sympathizing" with these terrorists and their justifications for slaughtering innocent and unarmed people, we'll all be listening to fatwa being handed down by a council of muftis instead of grand juries.

We'll have to in order to appease all the protesters blocking traffic so people can get where they're going.

Guess my Christmas list needs to be updated to add more ammo, I may need it.

HartselleTider said:

It's incredible how far we've fallen as a country. Believe me I'm just as enthused that I share it with people that think like you.

Not all gun owners are committing crimes, but the liberal politicians want to take those rights away from the law abiding citizens. That's why people in places like Australia or England can't defend themselves from these acts of terror. The terrorists can have 'em though.

The entire liberal agenda is built on logical fallacies. But I certainly appreciate the new calendar with all the Muslim holidays proudly displayed on it.

It's gone absurdly too far when Muslims or Sikhs have religious rights that others don't have in this country. I see it everyday.

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Believe me, I support gun rights as much as religious freedom.

But I am interested in knowing what religious rights Muslims and Sikhs enjoy exclusively.