Rainbow City Nativity Scene, anyone here live there?

Displaced Bama Fan

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My favorite is the Jehovah's Witnesses going door to door telling people only 144,000 are going to heaven. Call me crazy, but if I believed that, I'd be inclined to keep it to myself.
Yep, they came to my door once and I asked them how many total were in the church and they quoted me some number in excess of 144,000. So I paused and looked at them and said, so what's going to happen to you two when the 144,000 are taken and you aren't? Needless to say, they left my house speechless.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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My wife grew up in the Witnesses. Still gets some PTSD as a result.

I was skiing in Utah 20 plus years ago and had some to kill before my flight. Went by the Mormon HQ to look around and was immediately approached by two Mormon hotties. They started pitching Mormonism and I replied with a Polygamy offer. They seemed to be more interested in my offer than I was in being a Mormon :)
Years ago, I had two Mormons come over to my house pitching me. For some reason I let them in. They started telling me that before Jesus ascended into heaven, he talked to the ancient Americans. I stopped them, and said, so he witnessed to the Indians? I mean, there were no white guys in the US back in the first year of AD from all the history that I've read. They were now confused and I'm sure they had to go back to the temple to be re-programmed.
 

AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Yep, they came to my door once and I asked them how many total were in the church and they quoted me some number in excess of 144,000. So I paused and looked at them and said, so what's going to happen to you two when the 144,000 are taken and you aren't? Needless to say, they left my house speechless.
Odd. Witnesses not familiar with their own religious teachings? They're pretty clear on that if you study their doctrine.

The remainder live eternally on earth. The "other sheep."
 

AUDub

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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Years ago, I had two Mormons come over to my house pitching me. For some reason I let them in. They started telling me that before Jesus ascended into heaven, he talked to the ancient Americans. I stopped them, and said, so he witnessed to the Indians? I mean, there were no white guys in the US back in the first year of AD from all the history that I've read. They were now confused and I'm sure they had to go back to the temple to be re-programmed.
I doubt they needed any sort of reprogramming. Probably evacuated when challenged. Mormons are pretty clear on this, too. They're all about anachronisms. They believed there was a tribe of Jewish people (Nephites) that migrated to America from the Middle East. Jesus came to them after his resurrection.

I'll say this, though. I have never met a Mormon I didn't genuinely like.
 
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RammerJammer14

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There is that option, but I believe there is a defensible solution for such scenes to be displayed on public property. Using Rainbow City as an example, the city simply needs to put in place a process similar to the one used for specialty license plates. Here are sample requirements for a religious scene to be displayed on public property: (1) the scene must celebrate peace and hope and cannot be obscene; (2) the requesting group must pay for, set up, take down, and maintain the scene in good working order; (3) the requesting group must pay a use fee of $25 per day, which will be used to help fund the ongoing landscaping and general maintenance of the public property designated for such use; (4) the scene cannot be displayed for more than 30 days; (5) a minimum of 2% of registered city voters must sign a public declaration supporting the display; (6) requests for a display must be filed and all use fees paid in advance no earlier than 90 days but no later than 60 days before the display would be erected; (7) in the event that multiple display requests conflict as to the requested time period, the first request received shall take precedence; and (8) the city clerk will verify that all requirements have been met before the display can be erected.
That's actually not bad.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Pew research did a study Atheists on average know the most about religion, followed by Jews then Mormons

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey-who-knows-what-about-religion/

Yeah, and while I'm sure to get called a racist for this observation, the black Protestants pull down the Protestant Christian numbers if you actually look at the numbers (it averages out to 15.7 yet the ONLY group that even scores below 15.8 is the black Protestant group). This is not because black Protestants are dumb but because black Christian experience is different than white and tends more towards the emotional than intellectual discussion of church history, historical theology, etc. That should not be viewed as an attack but it is reality. One of the things Dallas Theological Seminary has been trying to do for years is recruit black students into traditionally white Protestantism (with mixed degrees of success).

I'm sure there are black atheists but black people on the whole tend to be more religious than their white counterparts, an observation that even agnostic prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi has made. None of this should be taken as an attack on black people, just an observation on the numbers.


Now that being said.....

But I also find it funny how many Christians just love their clearly prohibited in the bible Christmas trees as well. Just like Tattooed Christians, I get to chuckle when I see it. Tattooed bible versus are my absolute favorite as it truly exposes the hypocrisy and cherry picking nature of so many Christians and it seemed like a good time to drag that up here.
While I cannot argue your basic central point here - there ARE Christians who cherry pick things - you are ignoring the simple fact that the law of Moses (where this was declared) was wiped away by Christ's death (Eph 2, Col 2). There is no NT condemnation of tattoos, and it is debatable there is even an OT one where you cite. (Thus, your immediate tactic that will no doubt follow of trying to say homosexuality was condemned in the law of Moses and thus isn't now is overturned since there are at least two explicit condemnations of it in the NT (Rom 1:18-23, 1 Cor 6:9)).

I don't have any tattoos, but I don't think that's really the point.

Furthermore, your point here goes both ways. How often are we told by skeptics that: 1) we don't know who wrote the gospels originally and that, 2) the gospels WERE NOT written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. It amazes me how many skeptics try to get away with this one. Well if your point one is TRUE then you cannot make the declaration of point two with any level of intellectual honesty.

If you don't know - you don't know; not "we don't know but we DO know it wasn't these folks." "You" here should obviously be understood generically and not as Jon; I'm just making the point that the cherry picking of facts is not limited to Christians, and your example is not a good one.

Here is a good one: Church of Christ people who insist on water baptism as necessary for salvation despite there being an abundance of evidence otherwise AND non-CoC people who try to get around some of the CoC implications by rewriting the text.


So your point is conceded, Jon, but your example isn't. I don't have any tattoos and personally think they're stupid (I find them particularly ugh on women but I digress) - but hey, to each his or her own.
 

Probius

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There is that option, but I believe there is a defensible solution for such scenes to be displayed on public property. Using Rainbow City as an example, the city simply needs to put in place a process similar to the one used for specialty license plates. Here are sample requirements for a religious scene to be displayed on public property: (1) the scene must celebrate peace and hope and cannot be obscene; (2) the requesting group must pay for, set up, take down, and maintain the scene in good working order; (3) the requesting group must pay a use fee of $25 per day, which will be used to help fund the ongoing landscaping and general maintenance of the public property designated for such use; (4) the scene cannot be displayed for more than 30 days; (5) a minimum of 2% of registered city voters must sign a public declaration supporting the display; (6) requests for a display must be filed and all use fees paid in advance no earlier than 90 days but no later than 60 days before the display would be erected; (7) in the event that multiple display requests conflict as to the requested time period, the first request received shall take precedence; and (8) the city clerk will verify that all requirements have been met before the display can be erected.
1) Who decides what is obscene? Why peace and hope? 3) Why $25? That number seems arbitrary. 4) Why 30 days? This number also seems arbitrary. This 'solution' seems awfully complicated, and ignores the first amendment.


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Tide1986

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1) Who decides what is obscene? Why peace and hope? 3) Why $25? That number seems arbitrary. 4) Why 30 days? This number also seems arbitrary. This 'solution' seems awfully complicated, and ignores the first amendment.


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It's really no different than how specialty license plates are administered.

But to answer your questions:

(1) Ask the FCC how it determines what is "obscene".
(2) Peace and hope are arguably interests of any community. Plus, peace and hope would likely exclude satanists since they revel in all of the sins of humanity.
(3) Charging for use of public property addresses concerns over using public property to represent interests that not all tax-paying citizens may agree with. The fee constitutes an additional tax, not paid by all. Plus, the fee can be used to defray costs for maintaining the public property so even if others don't agree with a display, they won't have a financial argument against the use.
(4) Some set number of days would be needed to ensure that other groups have access to using the public property.
(5) Ensuring an unbiased government is complicated.
 

Probius

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It's really no different than how specialty license plates are administered.

But to answer your questions:

(1) Ask the FCC how it determines what is "obscene".
(2) Peace and hope are arguably interests of any community. Plus, peace and hope would likely exclude satanists since they revel in all of the sins of humanity.
(3) Charging for use of public property addresses concerns over using public property to represent interests that not all tax-paying citizens may agree with. The fee constitutes an additional tax, not paid by all. Plus, the fee can be used to defray costs for maintaining the public property so even if others don't agree with a display, they won't have a financial argument against the use.
(4) Some set number of days would be needed to ensure that other groups have access to using the public property.
(5) Ensuring an unbiased government is complicated.
1) There is no objective definition of 'obscene', what the FCC does is censorship.
2) You're already discriminating with this plan by excluding Satanists. The government must not prefer Christianity to any other religion, including Satanism.
5) Ensuring an unbiased government is done by the government not endorsing any religion. Choosing a religion or no religion is a personal choice, it is not a choice for the government.


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Mamacalled

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glad to know you know how the blue font thing works. Pet peeve, that joke drives me nuts. It's like saying "I'm too dumb to figure this out so I'll just write blue font instead" Or at least that is how I always read it


denounce is the wrong word on Christmas trees. I love having Christmas trees. When I lived overseas I always hated having a fake one and always go out after Thanksgiving and find the biggest one that will fit in my foyer. Love the smell, decoration, everything. But I also find it funny how many Christians just love their clearly prohibited in the bible Christmas trees as well. Just like Tattooed Christians, I get to chuckle when I see it. Tattooed bible versus are my absolute favorite as it truly exposes the hypocrisy and cherry picking nature of so many Christians and it seemed like a good time to drag that up here.

And no I don't feel like anyone is consciously trying to put us in our place in this specific instance. But I would still take a stand if my town did it, whatever their motivation was.

And for those reading this and shaking their head. Would you be ok with your city Government putting a Koran on Display or a Menorah and only a menorah out on the lawn at City Hall?
I wouldn't care enough to make an issue out of it. Not insecure about my beliefs to worry about someone else's as long as they didn't tell me I couldn't worship the way I want.
 

Jon

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This is precisely why we are not a Democracy, I feel sad for the non-Christians in Rainbow City.

I'll cite Mathew 6:5 but I'm betting I am not understanding the "context" or some other reason why this isn't cherry picking again

New International Version
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
 

Tide1986

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This is precisely why we are not a Democracy, I feel sad for the non-Christians in Rainbow City.

I'll cite Mathew 6:5 but I'm betting I am not understanding the "context" or some other reason why this isn't cherry picking again
Sometimes majority rule is a good thing. It's impossible to protect every possible minority opinion.
 

bamahippie

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I'll cite Mathew 6:5 but I'm betting I am not understanding the "context" or some other reason why this isn't cherry picking again
I searched the article, looking for where the point of the crowd was only to pray. Guess what? Didn't find it. Again....FAIL. So, yep, context does matter.
 

Jon

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I searched the article, looking for where the point of the crowd was only to pray. Guess what? Didn't find it. Again....FAIL. So, yep, context does matter.
that's crap and you know it. That was a prayer rally. Everyone there was there in defense of Christianity and to make a public display of doing so. Very much the hypocrites that Jesus (supposedly) spoke of in Mathew.
 

Jon

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Sometimes majority rule is a good thing. It's impossible to protect every possible minority opinion.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me
 

TideEngineer08

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This is precisely why we are not a Democracy, I feel sad for the non-Christians in Rainbow City.

I'll cite Mathew 6:5 but I'm betting I am not understanding the "context" or some other reason why this isn't cherry picking again
This is so melodramatic.

There are a few on this message board that mock anyone who suggests there is a "war on Christianity" in this country. Should I feel the same way about your thinly veiled assertion that there is a "war on non-Christians" in Rainbow City?
 

Jon

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This is so melodramatic.

There are a few on this message board that mock anyone who suggests there is a "war on Christianity" in this country. Should I feel the same way about your thinly veiled assertion that there is a "war on non-Christians" in Rainbow City?
whoa, wait, what?

When and where did I claim a war against anybody?

I feel sad for the non-christians because clearly the government of Rainbow city doesn't give a crap about them. That is far, far from me saying that the Government is actively persecuting them
 

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