Rainbow City Nativity Scene, anyone here live there?

bamahippie · Dec 22, 2014

Jon said:
that's crap and you know it. That was a prayer rally. Everyone there was there in defense of Christianity and to make a public display of doing so. Very much the hypocrites that Jesus (supposedly) spoke of in Mathew.

Nope. Using scripture out-of-context to try to hold your point together is crap. The larger point that Jesus was trying to make (and this was all before giving them the example, Lord's prayer) was in verse 1:
"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."

That portion of scripture only applies to these people if they are all gathering with the sole intention of being seen by people, unprovokingly showing off how great they are at being "Christian". Problem with your assertion is, these people were provoked to action by the recent events, and are coming together for a cause. Not so everyone can look on them and talk about how righteous they are. Wanna know how I know? Those people would have never gathered, had it not been for the provocation. If these people had gathered en masse like that, without being stirred, then maybe you would have a point. But, you don't with that scripture. Read what the Man was saying, for crying out loud. Please quit googling for scripture, one verse here, one verse there, to try to prop up your points.

TideEngineer08 · Dec 22, 2014

Jon said:
whoa, wait, what?

When and where did I claim a war against anybody?

I feel sad for the non-christians because clearly the government of Rainbow city doesn't give a crap about them. That is far, far from me saying that the Government is actively persecuting them

I'm not saying the government is actively pursuing Christians or anyone. I put the phrases in quotes for that reason - there is some absurdity to the notion that there is a "war" against anyone in this country, be they women, black people, gays, or Christians. Or atheists. I believe your melodramatic claims that Rainbow City doesn't give a crap about non-Christians rise to the level of the same absurd notion that there is a war on anyone in this country.

Hopefully that explains my point a little better. In any event, I don't mean to be so argumentative. I just tire of these instigative groups like the FFRF and their willful misunderstanding of the separation of church and state. I also tire of people who do not understand or recognize what role Christianity played in the creation of this country. And no, I'm not saying Jesus wrote the US Constitution.

Gr8hope · Dec 22, 2014

Jon said:
This is precisely why we are not a Democracy, I feel sad for the non-Christians in Rainbow City.

I'll cite Mathew 6:5 but I'm betting I am not understanding the "context" or some other reason why this isn't cherry picking again

No. This is exactly why we are a Democracy. We are free to pray in public, contrary to what many suggest. You are free to speak as you wish also. You are not free to stop others. That is how our country was founded. You are not forced to join in, you are free to leave any gathering at any time.

Jon · Dec 22, 2014

bamahippie said:
Nope. Using scripture out-of-context to try to hold your point together is crap. The larger point that Jesus was trying to make (and this was all before giving them the example, Lord's prayer) was in verse 1:
"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."

That portion of scripture only applies to these people if they are all gathering with the sole intention of being seen by people, unprovokingly showing off how great they are at being "Christian". Problem with your assertion is, these people were provoked to action by the recent events, and are coming together for a cause. Not so everyone can look on them and talk about how righteous they are. Wanna know how I know? Those people would have never gathered, had it not been for the provocation. If these people had gathered en masse like that, without being stirred, then maybe you would have a point. But, you don't with that scripture. Read what the Man was saying, for crying out loud. Please quit googling for scripture, one verse here, one verse there, to try to prop up your points.

Isn't that exactly what most of these people are doing? Maybe I'm too cynical but I see this as public grandstanding by everyone who attended and the politicians who are very publicly "willing to fight for their beliefs". (and waste your tax dollars in the process)

And this is precisely why I love knowing religions. You are all right now thinking. I don't do that. I never extol my Christianity "for the sole intention of being seen by people" I do it for good reasons. Whatever. Sure you do, sure you do

Jon · Dec 22, 2014

TideEngineer08 said:
I'm not saying the government is actively pursuing Christians or anyone. I put the phrases in quotes for that reason - there is some absurdity to the notion that there is a "war" against anyone in this country, be they women, black people, gays, or Christians. Or atheists. I believe your melodramatic claims that Rainbow City doesn't give a crap about non-Christians rise to the level of the same absurd notion that there is a war on anyone in this country.

Hopefully that explains my point a little better. In any event, I don't mean to be so argumentative. I just tire of these instigative groups like the FFRF and their willful misunderstanding of the separation of church and state. I also tire of people who do not understand or recognize what role Christianity played in the creation of this country. And no, I'm not saying Jesus wrote the US Constitution.

it does but we'll just have to disagree on some things here

I don't believe there is a war on anyone going on here either. Never said it, never thought it and nothing was veiled, thinly or otherwise.

I do however think it shows clearly, to Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists, Muslims, Jews and any other non-christian that has to suffer to live in Rainbow City that their Government doesn't care when that Government clearly takes sides and shows favoritism.

Jon · Dec 22, 2014

Gr8hope said:
No. This is exactly why we are a Democracy.

No we are a Constitutional Republic. If we were a Democracy Slavery would have lasted longer and the Civil Rights act would have never happened or at least been delayed by decades.

Gr8hope said:
We are free to pray in public, contrary to what many suggest.

Completely agree and I'd never try to stop you.

Gr8hope said:
You are free to speak as you wish also.

Also agree

Gr8hope said:
You are not free to stop others.

more agreement

Gr8hope said:
That is how our country was founded.

Agree again.

Gr8hope said:
You are not forced to join in, you are free to leave any gathering at any time.

Again I agree.

TideEngineer08 · Dec 22, 2014

Jon said:
I do however think it shows clearly, to Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists, Muslims, Jews and any other non-christian that has to suffer to live in Rainbow City that their Government doesn't care when that Government clearly takes sides and shows favoritism.

The beauty of this country is that they are free to move anywhere else if they truly feel they are suffering in Rainbow City. The government isn't going to put them in jail or behead them if they don't like the Christmas display. However, I would be shocked if those citizens not inclined to follow Christianity are truly suffering there. And if they are suffering in Rainbow City, I doubt very seriously that religion has anything to do with it at all.

And our government takes sides and shows favoritism all the time and very little is done about it. In areas where legal talent would be well spent, where real oppression is happening. Yet, we have folks wasting time trying to get a 3 dollar light display taken down, or stopping students from praying before a football game, etc.

Jon · Dec 22, 2014

TideEngineer08 said:
The beauty of this country is that they are free to move anywhere else if they truly feel they are suffering in Rainbow City. The government isn't going to put them in jail or behead them if they don't like the Christmas display. However, I would be shocked if those citizens not inclined to follow Christianity are truly suffering there. And if they are suffering in Rainbow City, I doubt very seriously that religion has anything to do with it at all.

And our government takes sides and shows favoritism all the time and very little is done about it. In areas where legal talent would be well spent, where real oppression is happening. Yet, we have folks wasting time trying to get a 3 dollar light display taken down.

sorry to me just living in Rainbow City is a form of suffering. The mayor could be an outspoken atheist libertarian like me I'd still suffer to live there. I'm not a small town guy

And all they have to do is give the three dollar display to any private homeowner or church that want's it in town and all this goes away. The Atheist that is trying to get his government to follow the law is not the aggressor here. The politicians blatently flaunting the law are. This is no different from Roy Moore and his tax wasting look at me crap just at a smaller scale

bamahippie · Dec 22, 2014

Jon said:
Isn't that exactly what most of these people are doing? Maybe I'm too cynical but I see this as public grandstanding by everyone who attended and the politicians who are very publicly "willing to fight for their beliefs". (and waste your tax dollars in the process)

And this is precisely why I love knowing religions. You are all right now thinking. I don't do that. I never extol my Christianity "for the sole intention of being seen by people" I do it for good reasons. Whatever. Sure you do, sure you do

Wow. OK, so if someone did something in your city that caused a stir among the local atheists, and someone called and said "Hey Jon, we are all gathering at so-and-so place, you need to be there. We need to fight this. We won't stand for this." After your earlier rah-rah rhetoric, you're telling me you wouldn't be there? We can't speak out of both sides of our mouth on this deal. So you would "fight", and "wouldn't stand for" a perceived attack on what you believe, but it's not cool when other people gather for a similar goal? Well, alrighty then.

And how would you presume to know the intentions of everyone in that crowd? Sure you do, sure you do.

TideEngineer08 · Dec 22, 2014

Jon said:
sorry to me just living in Rainbow City is a form of suffering. The mayor could be an outspoken atheist libertarian like me I'd still suffer to live there. I'm not a small town guy

And all they have to do is give the three dollar display to any private homeowner or church that want's it in town and all this goes away. The Atheist that is trying to get his government to follow the law is not the aggressor here. The politicians blatently flaunting the law are. This is no different from Roy Moore and his tax wasting look at me crap just at a smaller scale

They aren't breaking any law. And this is nothing like what the goofball Roy Moore did. This little display has been drug out of some back closet for years with nary the first complaint. No one was trying to thumb their noses at the local atheists. In that regard, the atheist is most certainly the aggressor in this situation. He moves into town, sees the the display, freaks out and calls up the FFRF, who is all too eager to get involved with local matters in far away places. They are the aggressors here.

Tide1986 · Dec 22, 2014

Jon said:
that's crap and you know it. That was a prayer rally. Everyone there was there in defense of Christianity and to make a public display of doing so. Very much the hypocrites that Jesus (supposedly) spoke of in Mathew.

^^^ "He's an angry elf." ^^^

Tide1986 · Dec 22, 2014

Jon said:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me

Out of curiosity, how many non-Christians have been imprisoned, exterminated, had their property confiscated, had their votes invalidated, had their water service turned off, been refused police and fire protection, et cetera, et cetera?

Jon · Dec 22, 2014

TideEngineer08 said:
They aren't breaking any law. And this is nothing like what the goofball Roy Moore did. This little display has been drug out of some back closet for years with nary the first complaint. No one was trying to thumb their noses at the local atheists. In that regard, the atheist is most certainly the aggressor in this situation. He moves into town, sees the the display, freaks out and calls up the FFRF, who is all too eager to get involved with local matters in far away places. They are the aggressors here.

sorry, but last I checked the Establishment clause is the law of the land and the Supreme court has consistently held my view up

Jon · Dec 22, 2014

Tide1986 said:
Out of curiosity, how many non-Christians have been imprisoned, exterminated, had their property confiscated, had their votes invalidated, had their water service turned off, been refused police and fire protection, et cetera, et cetera?

Prior to 1964, I'd guess hundreds if not thousands, even more if you look at the natives tribes that were most certainly pushed off this land before Alabama was a State

Recently, probably none. Your post just reminded me of that poem and why all this matters. The Constitution is in place, specifically to protect minorities against the majority. This is a nation of Individuals, E Pluribus unum and all that.

Gr8hope · Dec 22, 2014

Actually Jon, we are a democratic republic.

AUDub · Dec 22, 2014

Gr8hope said:
Actually Jon, we are a democratic republic.

Uh, not according to every class I've ever taken on the subject.

crimsonaudio · Dec 22, 2014

The US is a constitutional republic.

seebell · Dec 22, 2014

Tide1986 said:
Out of curiosity, how many non-Christians have been imprisoned, exterminated, had their property confiscated, had their votes invalidated, had their water service turned off, been refused police and fire protection, et cetera, et cetera?

Millions

Tide1986 · Dec 22, 2014

seebell said:
Millions

Wow! Etowah County should replace Jefferson County as the #1 license plate. Who knew Walmart and Dollar General would attract so many residents?

seebell · Dec 22, 2014

Tide1986 said:
Wow! Etowah County should replace Jefferson County as the #1 license plate. Who knew Walmart and Dollar General would attract so many residents?

You didn't specify a place or time my oenophile sommelier wannabe.

I think your earlier post about criteria for who may display on public property is the solution. Seems simple enough.

Rainbow City Nativity Scene, anyone here live there?

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