A Saban/Meyer comparison I have not seen discussed...

Chukker Veteran

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The Saban Meyer rematch has set the sports world on fire...they have been compared nearly every way I can think of. Won loss record, recruiting, game prep, and on and on. We've had some proud Ohio State fans drop in to stick up for Meyer...or Urby, as I've learned they call him.

But there is one glaring difference I can think of when comparing the two that I haven't seen chewed over...

How does a top program, coached under Saban or Meyer, do once he leaves the program?

I would suggest, to make that comparison, we can look at LSU post-Saban and compare it to Florida post-Meyer.

When Saban left, LSU was able to bring in a verbally challenged grass-eater and keep on going at a high level.

On the other hand, Florida brought the coach-in-waiting for the mighty Texas Shorthorns but Urby left such a mess even Muschamp couldn't get them back on track.

I'll go a step farther...in my opinion if Les had replaced Meyer, the program was in such bad shape he would have pooped out, just like Muschamp did. Conversely, I'll argue if Muschamp had of repaced Saban at LSU, the program was in such good shape I bet Muschamp would still be there.
 

bamahippie

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Hmmm.

And going back further, Bowling Green coaches haven't cracked a .600 overall winning percentage since his departure.

Kyle Whittington has only won 2/3 of his games since Urban left.

But, if you only spend 2 years at places, how much building are you doing?
 

CrimsonForce

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Not a knock on Urban, but I think the reason for the programs collapsing after he leaves is due to him building the program around one superstar player instead of building the whole program. At Utah he had Alex Smith, at UF he had Tebow, and at OSU he's had Braxton Miller. Will be interesting to see how he does if he stays at OSU for the long term.

Conversely, at Alabama under CNS, we went 12-0 in the regular season with John Parker Wilson, and then won the SECCG and NCG's with Greg and AJ. And now here we are one game away from another NCG with Blake. Seems like CNS builds a more balanced program so the QB is normally just plug and play. Maybe that will change with Kiffin being here as we have leaned very heavily on our best player, Amari Cooper, this year..
 
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Redwood Forrest

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I had not thought of the continuance angle, but it got me to thinking how many times I have heard Pro Scouts say Coach Saban's players are ready for the Pros when they graduate. Can't remember them saying that about Urby, tho I guess they could have and I just missed it.
 

Mystical

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I think Les is a better coach than Muschamp. Les had head coaching experience before he ever came to LSU. Muschamp had to learn on the job. Never a good idea at a big time program.
 

AgentAntiOrange

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Isn't the flip side of saying this that the teams success depended more on CUM presence than on CNS? I don't think that's true but you could argue it just as easily, if not more easily, than the idea that CNS left things in good shape and CUM left a mess. Also, if CFB of the last 3 decades has taught us anything, it's that when iconic coaches leave, programs drop drastically. It's a safe bet that we will have a struggle after CNS retires no matter who replaces him.

Florida State after CBB, Penn State after CJP, Alabama after BPB, Nebraska after Osborne, Michigan after CBS, Tennessee after Fulmer. I'm sure there are others.
 

BuckeyeAlumnus

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The Saban Meyer rematch has set the sports world on fire...they have been compared nearly every way I can think of. Won loss record, recruiting, game prep, and on and on. We've had some proud Ohio State fans drop in to stick up for Meyer...or Urby, as I've learned they call him.

But there is one glaring difference I can think of when comparing the two that I haven't seen chewed over...

How does a top program, coached under Saban or Meyer, do once he leaves the program?

I would suggest, to make that comparison, we can look at LSU post-Saban and compare it to Florida post-Meyer.

When Saban left, LSU was able to bring in a verbally challenged grass-eater and keep on going at a high level.

On the other hand, Florida brought the coach-in-waiting for the mighty Texas Shorthorns but Urby left such a mess even Muschamp couldn't get them back on track.

I'll go a step farther...in my opinion if Les had replaced Meyer, the program was in such bad shape he would have pooped out, just like Muschamp did. Conversely, I'll argue if Muschamp had of repaced Saban at LSU, the program was in such good shape I bet Muschamp would still be there.
A lot of guessing games, what-ifs, and conjecture here. Perhaps LSU just made a much better coaching hire than Florida did?

How about how well off the programs were before Meyer's arrival?

Bowling Green the year before Meyer: 2-9
Bowling Green in Meyer's first year: 8-3. Second year: 9-3

Utah the year before Meyer: 5-6 record.
Utah in Meyer's first year: 10-2. Second year: 12-0

Florida the year before Meyer: 7-5
Florida in Meyer's first year: 9-3. Second year: 13-1

Ohio State the year before Meyer: 6-7
Ohio State in Meyer's first year: 12-0. Second year: 12-2


Bottom line: both are fantastic coaches, and belittling one guy's accomplishments in order to compare the two is pointless. Let's just acknowledge how lucky we both are to have them.


1a. Saban
1b. Meyer
 

GreatDanish

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I think AgentAntiOrange makes a valid point whether you agree with it or not. We've actually used that argument to justify Coach Saban's strength in the NFL - that they went 1-15 the year after he left.

But I do believe strongly that Saban separates himself from other CFB coaches in that he has not only coached the team but he has built a program. It's like it doesn't matter who our QB is, who our OC is, who our leaders on defense are... no matter what, we are going to be in the mix for the national championship at the end of the season.

I won't compare the two but I will say that a large part of Saban's excellence is his building of a program more than his coaching a team.
 

ontopp

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Jan 31, 2004
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First off Roll Tide,but what it sounds like to me Meyer wins with less talent against lesser foes.I also agree Coach Saban Builds a program along the way.Coach Miles would have not failed at Fla he has a proven track record.Also Okla St is still doing ok after he left.
 

Chukker Veteran

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Bottom line: both are fantastic coaches, and belittling one guy's accomplishments in order to compare the two is pointless. Let's just acknowledge how lucky we both are to have them.
I don't think stating the obvious...Urby left Florida in a mess while Saban left LSU in good shape is belittling Urby, it's just stating facts.
 

Tbux

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Dec 9, 2014
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Meyer has won everywhere he's ever coached.....

Meyers career winning percentage of .843 is tops among all active coaches and ranks 4th among coaches of All-Time trailing only Knute Rockne, Frank Leahy and George Woodruff.

Prior to last year, Meyer was one of only 9 coaches to have 20 game winning streaks at 2 schools. The others: Walter Camp, George Woodruff, Fielding Yost, Robert Neyland, Bud Wilkinson, Barry Switzer, Joe Paterno and Tom Osborne[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]. [/FONT] Last year he became the first coach to have 3 such streaks at 3 different schools.

Meyer's record speaks for itself......
 

CajunCrimson

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Meyer has won everywhere he's ever coached.....

Meyers career winning percentage of .843 is tops among all active coaches and ranks 4th among coaches of All-Time trailing only Knute Rockne, Frank Leahy and George Woodruff.

Prior to last year, Meyer was one of only 9 coaches to have 20 game winning streaks at 2 schools. The others: Walter Camp, George Woodruff, Fielding Yost, Robert Neyland, Bud Wilkinson, Barry Switzer, Joe Paterno and Tom Osborne[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]. [/FONT] Last year he became the first coach to have 3 such streaks at 3 different schools.

Meyer's record speaks for itself......
Rockne was at ND for 13 years, Leahy 11, and Woodruff Coached during an era where they played 25-30 games/season

Meyer can build a program.

And he's been smart enough to bail before it blows up.

I'm afraid this could be the kind of game that sends him packing again....

Maybe to the West Coast this time ;)
 

JeffAtlanta

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Florida State after CBB, Penn State after CJP, Alabama after BPB, Nebraska after Osborne, Michigan after CBS, Tennessee after Fulmer. I'm sure there are others.
To be fair, pretty much all of those programs were already in decline, struggling or rotting from the inside before the coach stepped down. Osborne may be an exception on the field, but he pretty much decided to look the other way and stop all disciplinary actions in order to finally get some championships before retirement.

I do agree totally with the point of your post though. The transition at LSU was very much the exception. To their credit, LSU was smart enough not to hire someone that needed on the job training.
 
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Chukker Veteran

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Meyer's record speaks for itself......
I thought I would pull up a newspaper story detailing what kind of discipline Mayer used at Florida and how he left the program in bad shape, but when I googled it there were so many to chose from I just threw up my hands. Yes, his record speaks for itself.
 

Tbux

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Rockne was at ND for 13 years, Leahy 11, and Woodruff Coached during an era where they played 25-30 games/season

Meyer can build a program.

And he's been smart enough to bail before it blows up.

I'm afraid this could be the kind of game that sends him packing again....

Maybe to the West Coast this time ;)
Funny.....Meyer bailed BG for Utah and left Utah for Florida.......now he's at the job he dreamed of having ever since he was a little boy. Which job should he not have taken????? LOL.....love these discussions. It is extraordinary to me the lengths people will go to try to minimize his accomplishments in an effort to advance some agenda.......

No matter folks personal opinion of him, he is by any rational measure one of the finest, most accomplished coaches in the history of the game.......those that try to diminish his accomplishments or deny the outstanding nature of his record just look silly in the face of the facts.....just my opinion, fwiw
 

Chukker Veteran

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Meyer is the definitely the underdog in this one so he has nothing to lose and pretty much has no pressure. If he wins then he is a genius, if he loses no one is going to be upset.
I don't agree...I think Meyer was really stung when Saban beat him so badly in those Florida games...and I bet he wants this win as badly as he has ever wanted one.
 

Tbux

Scout Team
Dec 9, 2014
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I don't agree...I think Meyer was really stung when Saban beat him so badly in those Florida games...and I bet he wants this win as badly as he has ever wanted one.
No doubt about it.....he wants this one badly. That said, he also knows better than anybody that playing with his 3rd string QB in only his second start, that he's playing with one hand tied behind his back and appreciates the long odds as a result. That said, if he does win, beating the mighty Bama juggernaut with such an extraordinary handicap, his legend will only grow.......
 

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