The Efficacy of "Broken Windows" Policing

Tide1986

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With the deaths of Brown and Garner, "broken windows" policing is coming under attack.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/n...windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

If a window in a building is broken and is left unrepaired, all the rest of the windows will soon be broken,” Professors George L. Kelling and James Q. Wilson wrote in The Atlantic.

Today, controversy over their metaphorical “broken windows” theory is reverberating again after
Eric Garner, a Staten Island man, died of a chokehold last month while being taken into custody for illegally selling cigarettes.

Critics denounce the theory as neoconservative pablum resulting in overpolicing and mass incarceration for relatively minor offenses that disproportionately target poor, black and Hispanic people. Moreover, they say it was not derived from scientific evidence and its connection to the city’s drastic decline in major crime remains unproven.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...cy/WM8hUySUL0YerJq2S2Ay1N/story.html#comments

...broken windows morphed into something more insidious. In a 2004 study, Harvard and Michigan researchers found that perceptions of “disorder” had less to do with decrepit physical surroundings than if black people dominated the street scene. Such findings reconfirmed the continuing intensity of stereotypes about the “dangerousness of blacks.”

Because of that perceived dangerousness, black people
themselves became the broken windows, joined in recent years by Latinos. The result was a tsunami that swept untold people of color off the streets. Between 1980 and today, America’s prison population exploded five-fold, to 1.5 million. Broken windows coincided with harsh drug policies that put away untold nonviolent offenders for long mandatory sentences. Even though there are no major differences by race in illegal drug use, African-Americans, 13 percent of the nation’s population, have made up more than a third of state drug and public order imprisonments and account for more than a third of federal inmates.
If communities don't enforce their laws, I'm not sure there's a point in having the laws in the first place.

I'll use my driving habits as an example. I've been driving to work using the same route for several years. In one area, I have never seen a patrol car, so I don't pay much attention to the speed limit and tend to drive 10-15 mph over the limit in this area. However, in another area (Cahaba Heights), Vestavia Hills regularly has patrol cars on duty in the mornings so I never go more than 5 mph over the limit. Is having a police presence to enforce basic traffic laws a form of "broken windows" policing? Of course it is, and the result is an area of town where drivers like myself are more observant of traffic laws.

Maybe some communities have too many frivolous laws. On the other hand, when you have as many people living in New York as there are today, you may have to have more laws to ensure peace and order.

So, what are your thoughts on "broken windows" policing?
 
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Bama Reb

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My thoughts:
The US Government not only refuses to enforce federal laws in regards to immigration, it goes so far as to force by intimidation or otherwise take legal action against individual states that do.
Now, if the government itself won't enforce laws that it is legally required to, what purpose is there in enforcing any legally enacted laws at all?
What good then are any laws? Why even have a Congress, whose soul job and requirement it is to pass these laws?
How does that set with your "Broken Windows" policy?
 
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gmart74

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Not sure if stop and frisk falls in the same category as broken windows but it was explained to me like this:
Most criminals aren't smart. Most also tend to lack a bit of impulse control. So the idea is to make contact with them for any reason you can come up with, and then see if you can find something more serious to actually incarcerate them with.
So maybe you see someone jaywalking, so you pat them down. Maybe you find drugs, maybe you find a weapon, maybe you find out they have a warrant out for their arrest. So whatever excuse you need to make contact is worth it since your dragnet tends to catch criminals who make it a routine to break laws.
The problem is that dragnets tend to snap up a lot of people who arent hardened criminals or routine law breakers as well.

So as far as the official theory of one window breaks and soon all will be broken I think is a bit incorrect. It should be more like, "A small number of people tend to break most of the windows. If you can catch one breaking the first window, you tend to see a lot less broken in the future."

Either way I think we will quickly get empirical evidence. Stop and frisk has been heavily criticized and is being scaled back. If crime starts to skyrocket again, I think we have our answer.
 

Tide1986

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Here's a detailed response to critics:

http://www.city-journal.org/2015/25_1_broken-windows-policing.html

With modern, data-driven policing—exemplified by Compstat, which uses exhaustive crime data and mapping to identify crime trends and hold precinct commanders accountable for their areas—these patterns, not some determination to target minorities, determine law enforcement’s response. That is, when the NYPD analyzes and maps crime and disorder in the city, and then develops its crime-prevention plans and allocates resources to specific neighborhoods, the effort will necessarily target high-crime areas, and those tend to have a preponderance of African-Americans and Hispanics and are usually the poorest neighborhoods in the city. In neighborhoods without high levels of victimization, crime, and disorder, residents maintain order through informal mechanisms and support networks and don’t need to call 311 or 911 regularly for assistance; in these areas, police presence is far less intrusive.
Ample evidence makes clear that Broken Windows policing leads to less crime. The academics who attribute crime drops to economic or demographic factors often work with macro data sets and draw unsubstantiated, far-fetched conclusions about street-level police work, which most have scarcely witnessed. These ivory-tower studies, frequently treated with reverence by the media, don’t prove what they purport to prove, and they fail to grasp how crime is managed in dense, urban settings.

New York City’s experience has suggestively demonstrated the success of Broken Windows over the last 20 years. In 1993, the city’s murder rate was 26.5 per 100,000 people. Starting in 1994, with the election of Rudy Giuliani as mayor and the appointment of Bratton as police commissioner, Broken Windows policing was put into practice citywide (it had been implemented in the subway in 1990)—and crime fell further, faster, and for longer than anywhere else in the country. Today, by far the largest and densest city in the United States has a lower murder rate, at four per 100,000, than the nation as a whole, at 4.5 per 100,000. In 1993, New York accounted for about 7.9 percent of the nation’s homicides; last year, the city’s share was just 2.4 percent. While the national murder rate per 100,000 people has been cut in half since 1994, the rate in New York has declined by more than six times. And those striking figures are emblematic of a broader accomplishment in a city that has seen huge, historic declines in every one of the seven major crime categories.
 
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chanson78

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Tide1986 have you ever read Freakonomics? There is an interesting take on the lowered crime rate. Granted it may be one of the studies that was referred in your article regarding macro data and wild far fetched conclusions, but it does present a good rationalization for the decreasing crime rate.
 

Tide1986

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Tide1986 have you ever read Freakonomics? There is an interesting take on the lowered crime rate. Granted it may be one of the studies that was referred in your article regarding macro data and wild far fetched conclusions, but it does present a good rationalization for the decreasing crime rate.
I assume you're referring to the "legalization" of abortion.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=1843646

Maybe 30-40% of the reduction in crime?

It's possible I guess, but you also have federal financial incentives to have more children which would seemingly offset impacts from the "legalization" of abortion at least to some degree.

I'm not sure that the "legalization" of abortion explains why crime fell faster in NY and why crime stats are better in NY than in most other parts of the country.
 

gmart74

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Ed Norris is a radio host in Baltimore. He was pretty high up in the police force under giuliani. he was there when they implemented the program. so i have heard him talk about it quite a bit. he is a firm believer that it is one of the primary reasons for the reduction in crime. he is a colorful guy with a colorful history but it may be worthwhile to look up interviews with him.

in addition to the freakonomics theory, there has also been an additional theory about the elimination of lead paint and that it may be a major factor in the broad reduction of crime across the nation in the last couple of decades.
 
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CoachJeff

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I assume you're referring to the "legalization" of abortion.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=1843646

Maybe 30-40% of the reduction in crime?

It's possible I guess, but you also have federal financial incentives to have more children which would seemingly offset impacts from the "legalization" of abortion at least to some degree.

I'm not sure that the "legalization" of abortion explains why crime fell faster in NY and why crime stats are better in NY than in most other parts of the country.
Freakonomics is an interesting read, but reached too far in some places. This is one. Legalized abortion has not lowered the crime rate like they claim. It's not as if the overall inner city birth rate has dropped significantly.
 

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