2015 Will Bring even more question marks than 2014

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
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If we don't change our defensive philosophy, this thread doesn't matter.
Anybody noticed how many points we're starting to give up against good teams?
Now, shall we blame the players?
Uh..no...
As has been mentioned by many others, we have four and five star recruits coming in every year.
Simply Play them!
We don't need "projects" at corner when we have incredible athletes who can lock down on receivers.
And we really need to take the leash off these incredible defensive linemen and linebackers we're signing.
They can't be great if they're not allowed to let it loose and make big plays.
And as far as them," not being able to pick up the defense".........maybe , just, I don't know, SIMPLIFY it and let the kids simply be better than their opponents because they're five times more athletic?????
Coach needs to do some thinking.
sip
I agree 100% but I doubt many will see it that way. The reason I say that is people have been over critical of kiffin abandoning the run and have a hard time bringing up that smarts defense allowed Marshall to have a career high day passing and 44 points on his defense. Until our defense is back to atleast the 2008 or 2012 caliber I think it's safe to say kiffins splash offense is our best defense to video game offenses. I still think we win the west on talent but winning the sec or further will undoubtably need a good to great pass defense
 
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alwayshavebeen

All-SEC
Sep 22, 2013
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In regards to simplifying...I truly believe when talent meets CNS's teaching and it all comes together it is a thing of beauty. It's the process of in between that can be frustrating at times. That said I don't think in the long run that simplifying anything is the answer...I would prefer to wait until it all comes together and reap the rewards than a temporary quick fix that doesn't have a solid foundation.
 

TideMan09

Hall of Fame
Jan 17, 2009
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Yup..I agree 100% point with ya as always Mack, this is a Crimson Tide message board, for us to come together & talk about Bama Football..And give our opinions as to how we think Bama Football will be the coming year & just talk about Bama Football..And you guys allow us Bama Fans do exactly that & keep bothersome rival fans off the boards bothering us..I appreciate the job you Mods do year in & year out allowing us discuss what we love with a passion & that's Bama Football..If Bama Fans doesn't wanna come on here to do that..Nobody is forcing Tide Fans to come on here & discuss Bama Football with the rest of us..
I'm a fan. We're fans. TideFans. We don't get paid to come up with solutions. The coaching staff does. Meanwhile, we have a little less than a year to have such discussions. And again, if you don't wan't to participate, nobody is forcing you to.
 

TideMan09

Hall of Fame
Jan 17, 2009
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And I'm going to link the Phil Steele link of SEC returning starters instead of making another thread..I hope you don't mind me linking this in your thread Mack..

Here's The Link..CLICK ME
 

TideFan in AU

Hall of Fame
All this talk of defensive scheme issues vs talent issues made me take a closer look at our CB's since 2008. Seeing it in black and white really answers a lot of questions, IMO.

Year - Starting CB's - Summary of the players


2008 - Kareem Jackson, Javier Arenas, Marquis Johnson - Jackson and Arenas had overall solid years, but they had issues at times. Marquis Johnson struggled mightily a lot of the year.

2009 - Kareem Jackson, Javier Arenas, Marquis Johnson - Kareem and Arenas went on to becoming 1st and 2nd round picks, and Johnson a very solid year, and was drafted in the 7th round. He made rosters with the Rams and Saints, and played 3 years in the NFL.

2010 - Dre Kirkpatrick, Dee Milliner, Dequan Menzie - The secondary as whole struggled in 2010, much like this year. Dre got more consistent as the year went by, but Dee Milliner struggled most of the year. Menzie played despite an Achilles injury, but had a pretty solid season.

2011 - Dre Kirkpatrick, Dee Milliner, Dequan Menzie - Everything came together this year, and Dre went to become a 1st round draft pick. Dee and Dequan had terrific years, and Dequan went on to becoming a 5th round and hung around 3 years in the NFL until this year when he retired.

2012 - Dee Milliner, Deion Belue - Dee Milliner had a great year and went on become a 1st rounder. Belue had a solid year, but this marked the first year ton where we began playing primarily with 3 safeties in our nickel package instead of primarily having 3 CB's. This was also the first year that we began to having some trouble in pass defense (TAMU and UGA most notably), but Dee Milliner's ability kept the unit in overall good shape.

2013 - Deion Belue, Cy Jones (with John Fulton, Eddie Jackson and Geno Smith getting starts as well at different points in the season.) - Deion Belue became our best cover corner and had a solid year despite several injuries. Belue played pretty well for his ability, but he went undrafted and was cut before the season started by the Jaguars. This was the first time in 6 seasons that we did not an elite NFL caliber CB on our roster. The other CB spot was a revolving that saw Fulton, Jackson, and Smith get starts. Johnny Football absolutely torched us and we struggled down the stretch against AU and OU.

2014 - Cy Jones, Eddie Jackson (with Tony Brown and Bradley Sylve getting starts as well at different points in the season.) - Cy Jones became our most consistent corner and had a pretty good year overall. Some of the passes he gave up were simply due to lack of height, but his technique and grasp of the defense was night day from 2013. It remains to be seen what his prospects as a pro is going to be, but I don't see him as a NFL type talent. The other spot was much like 2013, with Sylve, Jackson, and Brown all trying to hold down the spot. Sylve and Brown both have elite speed, but Sylve has shown inconsistency in playing ball, and Brown played like a true freshman plays at times. Eddie Jackson undoubtedly has the best grasp on the scheme, but lacks the elite speed the position requires. Whether this is due to his ACL surgery or not remains to be seen, as he seemed faster last year. Maurice Smith and Jabriel Washington also got snaps in dime packages, but it was much of the same from them. Besides Cy Jones, there was no consistency at the CB position.

The Safety position plays into this a good bit as well, it can argued that the talent at Safety overall is down this year as well. In fact, losing Vinny and Ha Ha probably made the CB situation worse that it would have been with elite safeties.

In conclusion, when I see our defense struggling with talent like we had a few years ago, I will wholeheartedly agree that maybe we need a change to scheme/system. When I look at what we have had the last 2 years, I see a lack of talent that is hopefully being addressed in the last 2 classes. I believe Tony Brown will see a much bigger role next year, and hopefully Humphrey, Fitzpatrick, and Sheffield will fill the 2 deep with the kind of talent people want to believe we have right now. ;)
 

bamacpa

All-American
Jul 19, 2006
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He's admitted that fault and says that he's corrected it, FWIW...
I would rate the results as mixed since he said that. Some nice catches, but the INT in the Sugar Bowl looked like he could have been more aggressive.

Sylve is a guy who could be in the mix at CB. I thought he played really well in the 2nd half of the Iron Bowl, but no PT since.
 

BamaMoon

Hall of Fame
Apr 1, 2004
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The one "technique" change I'd like to see is when our corners are running one of one with a wide receiver I wish they would be taught to find the receiver with one hand and find the ball with their eyes.

Turned on the Cowboys game yesteday and one of the first plays was a Dallas corner streaking down the field in one on one coverage with a wideout. He used one hand to "feel" the receiver and turned his eyes (like the receiver) to see the ball coming and went up and deflected the pass away.

I know CNS prefers a different technique, but I'm tired of watching average qbs throw the ball down the field, sometimes even into double coverage, only to see our guys never find the ball and their guy go up and make a 50 yard reception on 3rd and 10.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
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I think Hootie wasn't ready physically.
He was physically read enough to play on special teams. We're not suggesting he start over Perry, but I would have liked to see him get some meaningful playing time in order to get experience for next season.
 

Alasippi

Suspended
Aug 31, 2007
12,875
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Ocean Springs, MS
In regards to simplifying...I truly believe when talent meets CNS's teaching and it all comes together it is a thing of beauty. It's the process of in between that can be frustrating at times. That said I don't think in the long run that simplifying anything is the answer...I would prefer to wait until it all comes together and reap the rewards than a temporary quick fix that doesn't have a solid foundation.
My point is that sometimes, if a system or coverage scheme is a bit too complicated, then players start thinking rather than reacting and playing fast. That'll get you beat.
 

formersoldier71

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May 9, 2004
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Are you thinking of the same Adrian Hubbard I saw play from 2011 to 2013?
OJ Howard's production vs. the expectations were ummm....wow....and he wasn't / isn't a good run blocker.....at all. But I'm not giving up on him at all. I think he still has the potential to be everything that all the premature hyperbole said he could be.
I'm not writing OJ off, but I'm afraid that he's going to be the new Hubbard. An occasional great play that gets everyone excited that he's going to live up to his awesome potential, then a lot of meh.
 

Harmost

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Sep 19, 2005
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Do my eyes deceive, or is the Board trending towards Coker is the answer again? :wink: Seriously, I think our QB situation will work out and the OL will be fine. For the first time in many, many, many years I am concerned about the RB position. Sure the loss of KD and TJ's more than "nagging" injuries hurt, but that's one that I will be very interested to see how it develops.
I think RB is maybe the most secure position group. We know Henry, we hopefully know the Drake that will be out there, Tyren Jones looked fantastic, and Tenpenny has the talent if he stays. As to new faces, Bo Scarbrough is an absolute phenom (why are fans not more excited about him?), and this year's recruiting haul will no doubt be solid (even if Flowers is the lone commit). That's a lot to work with.
 

Alasippi

Suspended
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2
57
Ocean Springs, MS
The one "technique" change I'd like to see is when our corners are running one of one with a wide receiver I wish they would be taught to find the receiver with one hand and find the ball with their eyes.

Turned on the Cowboys game yesteday and one of the first plays was a Dallas corner streaking down the field in one on one coverage with a wideout. He used one hand to "feel" the receiver and turned his eyes (like the receiver) to see the ball coming and went up and deflected the pass away.

I know CNS prefers a different technique, but I'm tired of watching average qbs throw the ball down the field, sometimes even into double coverage, only to see our guys never find the ball and their guy go up and make a 50 yard reception on 3rd and 10.
Amen brother. That's my biggest gripe. It's like asking a receiver to catch a bomb without turning to look for the ball.
 

JustNeedMe81

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Sep 30, 2011
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I think what's more intriquing to me right now is the secondary. Lot of people said that we're thin at Safety, but Looking at the candidates for potential playing time next year... we're good. We have three experienced players returning back: Washington, Smith and Geno Smith. Clark and Jones could make lot of noise in spring and could compete. I think Ronnie Clark could be experimented as a RB, but the depth over there is too crowded, but could be a " insurance back up plan"

Jai Washington, Ronnie Clark, maurice Smith, Geno Smith, Hootie Jones and Anthony Averett. I'm definitely okay with what we have. I wouldn't be suprised to see Eddie Jackson to be moved to Safety.

Then we have CB: Cyrus Jones, Bradley Slyve, Marlon Humphrey, Kendall Sheffield, Minkah Fritizpatrick and ( Eddie Jackson) Guys, that's an interesting battle to look at in spring and Fall camp. This is actually an advantage that CKS and CNS has been seeking and I think we're going to see new things on Defense that we haven't seen before. Having Kiffin in off season will help the defense a lot. I know it sounds like we should be nervous, but I don't think we have issues... Coaches addressed critical needs at both positions. I think we'll see shutdown Cornerbacks next year.

Another position I'm intriqued is FB. Who takes over that position? Will that I formation goes away?
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
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I think what's more intriquing to me right now is the secondary. Lot of people said that we're thin at Safety, but Looking at the candidates for potential playing time next year... we're good. We have three experienced players returning back: Washington, Smith and Geno Smith. Clark and Jones could make lot of noise in spring and could compete. I think Ronnie Clark could be experimented as a RB, but the depth over there is too crowded, but could be a " insurance back up plan"

Jai Washington, Ronnie Clark, maurice Smith, Geno Smith, Hootie Jones and Anthony Averett. I'm definitely okay with what we have. I wouldn't be suprised to see Eddie Jackson to be moved to Safety.

Then we have CB: Cyrus Jones, Bradley Slyve, Marlon Humphrey, Kendall Sheffield, Minkah Fritizpatrick and ( Eddie Jackson) Guys, that's an interesting battle to look at in spring and Fall camp. This is actually an advantage that CKS and CNS has been seeking and I think we're going to see new things on Defense that we haven't seen before. Having Kiffin in off season will help the defense a lot. I know it sounds like we should be nervous, but I don't think we have issues... Coaches addressed critical needs at both positions. I think we'll see shutdown Cornerbacks next year.

Another position I'm intriqued is FB. Who takes over that position? Will that I formation goes away?
I see a bunch of inexperienced players. I recall in 2011 or 2012 Nick Perry talking about the defensive scheme and how a DB can only really learn it by being on the field. Going with the words of a 4 year player at S, I see at least 6 guys listed above that will have struggles.

Want to mention Washington as a player to take over safety? He made more bad plays than Nick Perry or Jarrick Williams did when they were first playing in 2011 and 2012. He will have to drastically improve to be a solid contributor at safety.

This has been addressed so many times...
You're right. This has been addressed. But for some reason, our DBs still get beat even with their current technique.

Which two plays? I'm thinking of the interception thrown by Sims after the OSU punt left Bama on the OSU 25 but I couldn't tell if Howard even had a chance to make a play on it.
He's talking about OJ, so the two plays would be the Ole Miss INT and the Ohio State INT.
 

bamahippie

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Apr 8, 2000
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Returning / Arriving (in order of receptions this year)

OJ Howard - physically as talented as they come as a receiver. Work in progress as a blocker.
Chris Black - came in as an early enrollee 3 years ago with fellow Floridian Amari Cooper. Many thought Black was better. Shoulder injury forced him to redshirt and fall WAY back in the shuffle. Has been frustrated about his usage or lack thereof. Maybe next season will be better for him.
ArDarius Stewart - explosive playmaker and all around athlete (did you see the height he got on that onside kick attempt the other night?). He seems to have a pretty good chemistry with Jake Coker. So if Coker is the guy, look for him to do some great things.
Cameron Sims - Shocked me that he got on the field before Robert Foster this year. But he has a big body and uses it well vs smaller DBs.
Robert Foster - All I heard before he got here and right after he got here was how he was the next Julio. And then......**shrug**...Played in spots this season. Hopefully enough to quell his homesickness and get him to stick around.

That's it for guys that played. Honestly that should be enough. But here are some other guys who could get in the mix.

Raheem Falkins - Another big bodied Louisianan. Played a lot as a true freshman but didn't register a catch this season. May have been injured. I can't recall.

Derek Kief- big bodied receiver (6'5") who can be a dangerous red zone asset and possession receiver.

Every TE on the roster (8!!!!!! of them) as well as the one committed to come here are probably best suited as run blockers. Not one as dynamic as Howard as a receiver

Coming in

Calvin Ridley - smooth route runner, hands like glue, outstanding athlete. Potential to be as productive as Cooper

We think we're gonna hold on to the Charlot kid from Louisiana, but man...LSU is going hard after him. And the interest is mutual. So yeah...That's where we are.
The thing that has me excited about this is this: When Jake Coker got some snaps when he was actually able to run the offense and throw, he was mostly throwing to the list of guys you see above. After a year in the playbook going into this coming year, that will become very beneficial, as Coker spread it around to many guys. We designed a lot of this year's offense around Coop, but with him leaving, this will create more of a balanced passing attack, IMO, assuming Kiffin stays.

Assuming Yeldon leaves, our backfield will be interesting (in a good way, I think), if Henry is the lead horse. Wonder how the rotation will shake out. Really like Tyren Jones. The guy runs hard.

On defense, I really think there needs to be a philosophy shift. I obviously believe in the coaches, and like Sip was saying, I just think there needs to be some simplification and let players make plays. Also hoping someone will emerge out of the potential superstars at CB opposite Cyrus Jones.
 

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