Final thoughts on Sugar Bowl...

Bruce014

1st Team
Aug 29, 2012
752
82
52
Alabama
For the officials to have ruled that play a safety (which, by rule, it wasn't) would have ranked on the referee travesty scale somewhere below Preston Gothard's 1983 touchdown catch at Penn State, but probably above the improperly reversed PI call on the Dallas Cowboys this past weekend. Even if it had been a blown call, if that's a significant contributing factor to our blowing a 15-point lead, we need new players, new coaches, or both.

I thought the officiating in this game was better than the standard performance of a Wagers- or Ritter-led SEC crew. tOSU beat us on fundamentals, pure and simple. If we can't accept it, we can't correct it. Luckily, I can't imagine CNS suffers from any delusion on this point...
I disagree.
Now I have not watched the replay, so maybe it was not a safety.
But more to the point a safety is a very significant play. It is humiliating for the offense, and the team that gets the two points also gets the ball. I do think that that could have changed the complexion of the game. Momentum is huge is football, and going up 16-7 and having the ball would have changed all of the dynamics later.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
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South Alabama
That's exactly what I don't like about the playoffs. It dilutes the regular season which means that teams who play in a weaker conference have a better shot to win the NC that those who play in tough ones. The tough conferences beat up on each other through injuries and losses while those in weaker conferences have a better chance to make it to the postseason with neither.
LSU can make the same claim for 2011 when they came into to our house and came out with a victory, and they beat the Pac 12 champ, the big east champ, and 8 top 25 teams only to be a footnote in the history of a team they had already beaten at their place. postseason play anyway you slice it never favors the best team, but rather the hottest team. Just ask Peyton Manning why Brady,Eli, and Roethlisburger are leading the NFL with the most rings by a current starting qb. I favor the playoffs only because there are going to be years it really benefits us when we lose early and come out strong late.
 

davefrat

Hall of Fame
Jun 4, 2002
5,172
3,889
282
Hopewell, VA
I disagree.
Now I have not watched the replay, so maybe it was not a safety.
But more to the point a safety is a very significant play. It is humiliating for the offense, and the team that gets the two points also gets the ball. I do think that that could have changed the complexion of the game. Momentum is huge is football, and going up 16-7 and having the ball would have changed all of the dynamics later.
it didn't look like a safety in real time or in replay.

you can't just drag someone into the endzone and make it a safety.
 

Zaiva

1st Team
Feb 27, 2013
357
0
35
That's exactly what I don't like about the playoffs. It dilutes the regular season which means that teams who play in a weaker conference have a better shot to win the NC that those who play in tough ones. The tough conferences beat up on each other through injuries and losses while those in weaker conferences have a better chance to make it to the postseason with neither.
I agree with you that the playoffs make the regular season a little less meaningful, but that's about it. The playoffs have put the two best teams in the country in the championship game, and that's all that matters. Also, this year I don't think there was a best conference.
 

TideFan in AU

Hall of Fame
I knew him personally from HS and I'm telling you he can coach. He even did good at FSU. Not to mention he is an ace recruiter. This is only my opinion.
I never said he wasn't and I agree. I think he is a very good coach. It's just that a lot if people (not you, specifically) have acted as though our secondary is struggling because he left. I believe the secondary is struggling because the talent left. As bad our defense is being portrayed, our's were statistically better than Pruitt's last year at FSU (they gave up more 100 yards more to AU than we did) and at his defense this year at UGA.
 

miggy402

1st Team
Aug 23, 2009
443
3
37
Waycross, GA
I agree with you that the playoffs make the regular season a little less meaningful, but that's about it. The playoffs have put the two best teams in the country in the championship game, and that's all that matters. Also, this year I don't think there was a best conference.
I understand the sentiment and don't necessarily disagree with you. The "tough" conference argument doesn't hold much water anymore now that more than 2 teams get into the NC picture.

I just wish they would go ahead and get it over with and move on to a larger playoff picture, get rid of the regular season games that don't matter anyway, and turn CFB into NFL-lite which seems to be what the powers-that-be want. That would give more flexibility to the teams who play in a conference that is perceived to be "tougher" (at least more years than not) while allowing for more inclusion for all teams in the process overall.

It's only a matter of time before this changes the strategy in terms of managing the season. How many times have we seen pro teams (NFL, NBA, et al) rest players late in seasons for games that mean less compared to playoff games around the corner?
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
12,757
94
67
I understand the sentiment and don't necessarily disagree with you. The "tough" conference argument doesn't hold much water anymore now that more than 2 teams get into the NC picture.

I just wish they would go ahead and get it over with and move on to a larger playoff picture, get rid of the regular season games that don't matter anyway, and turn CFB into NFL-lite which seems to be what the powers-that-be want. That would give more flexibility to the teams who play in a conference that is perceived to be "tougher" (at least more years than not) while allowing for more inclusion for all teams in the process overall.

It's only a matter of time before this changes the strategy in terms of managing the season. How many times have we seen pro teams (NFL, NBA, et al) rest players late in seasons for games that mean less compared to playoff games around the corner?
I think I agree. Just have a 9 or 10 game regular season schedule comprised of conference games and power 5 teams only. All conferences must have a conference championship game. Then have an 8 team playoff made up of the power 5 conference championship winners and 3 at large teams..
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
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I never said he wasn't and I agree. I think he is a very good coach. It's just that a lot if people (not you, specifically) have acted as though our secondary is struggling because he left. I believe the secondary is struggling because the talent left. As bad our defense is being portrayed, our's were statistically better than Pruitt's last year at FSU (they gave up more 100 yards more to AU than we did) and at his defense this year at UGA.
I agree there is a huge difference between having barron and Kirpatrick than having Cyrus and Landon, but its not 400+ yards to Nick Marshall big. Ill agree that Coats and Williams are great recievers but still its just ridiculous to say Nick Marshall throws for a career high on us.

I think Pruitt was one I would love to have back, but I think him and Muschamp are done with working for Saban.
 

TideFan in AU

Hall of Fame
I agree there is a huge difference between having barron and Kirpatrick than having Cyrus and Landon, but its not 400+ yards to Nick Marshall big. Ill agree that Coats and Williams are great recievers but still its just ridiculous to say Nick Marshall throws for a career high on us.

I think Pruitt was one I would love to have back, but I think him and Muschamp are done with working for Saban.
Well first of all, it is the difference in Dre, Dee Milliner, Menzie, Barron, and Lester vs Cyrus, Jackson/Sylve/Brown, Perry, Collins, and Smith. HUUUGE difference.

The same exact defensive coaching staff we have now produced a defense that allowed 166 YPG passing and 245 total YPG in 2009, better than any team we've had except 2011. The same staff also produced an almost exact statistical pass defense in 2010 than in 2012 when Pruitt was here (173 YPG in '12 and 176 YPG in '10). 2010 is remembered as being a bad year, but it is only slightly better than 2012. Last year, we allowed 180 YPG passing.

Here are the numbers through the years:

2008 - 189.3
2009 - 166.0
2010 - 176.2
2011 - 111.5
2012 - 173.6
2013 - 180.3
2014 - 226.0

We gave up 61 YPG more than this than our average for the 6 prior years. Even if you throw out the amazing 2011 defense and this year, we are still averaged 176 YPG allowed. We gave up 50 YPG more this year than our average even without 2011.

Either you have to believe that our coaches suddenly forgot how to coach - THIS YEAR - or we had a big drop off in talent and execution.

Again, I'm not saying Pruitt is a bad coach, but his leaving is not why our pass defense was the worst in the Saban era (including 2007). CNS is our defacto DB coach anyway, and always has been.
 

81usaf92

TideFans Legend
Apr 26, 2008
35,306
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Well first of all, it is the difference in Dre, Dee Milliner, Menzie, Barron, and Lester vs Cyrus, Jackson/Sylve/Brown, Perry, Collins, and Smith. HUUUGE difference.

The same exact defensive coaching staff we have now produced a defense that allowed 166 YPG passing and 245 total YPG in 2009, better than any team we've had except 2011. The same staff also produced an almost exact statistical pass defense in 2010 than in 2012 when Pruitt was here (173 YPG in '12 and 176 YPG in '10). 2010 is remembered as being a bad year, but it is only slightly better than 2012. Last year, we allowed 180 YPG passing.

Here are the numbers through the years:

2008 - 189.3
2009 - 166.0
2010 - 176.2
2011 - 111.5
2012 - 173.6
2013 - 180.3
2014 - 226.0

We gave up 61 YPG more than this than our average for the 6 prior years. Even if you throw out the amazing 2011 defense and this year, we are still averaged 176 YPG allowed. We gave up 50 YPG more this year than our average even without 2011.

Either you have to believe that our coaches suddenly forgot how to coach - THIS YEAR - or we had a big drop off in talent and execution.

Again, I'm not saying Pruitt is a bad coach, but his leaving is not why our pass defense was the worst in the Saban era (including 2007). CNS is our defacto DB coach anyway, and always has been.
yeah but the problem hasnt been that they arent in the same area code of talent as past defenses, or we wouldnt still have 1st round draft picks in the secondary. It has been more looking for the ball, not taking a 15 yard penalty over a 80 yard touchdown, or just plain losing assignments. Im not saying fire them all and lets start over, but Im saying we need someone new because we constantly have a boatload of talent with these results. I also dont think Priutt is the defacto solution either because he couldnt dumb down our complicated defense in 2010 either. The problem is the defensive schemes are very complicated not that we dont have as much talent as year 20xx. If someone doesnt know CNS's defense then he will put someone who does regardless of talent. Case and point Cory Reamer. Not bashing on Reamer, but there was more talented players behind Hightower than Reamer, but Reamer understood his role in the defense better than anyone. So the talent is there, but will we ever see it is the question.
 

RTR91

Super Moderator
Nov 23, 2007
39,407
6
0
Prattville
Well first of all, it is the difference in Dre, Dee Milliner, Menzie, Barron, and Lester vs Cyrus, Jackson/Sylve/Brown, Perry, Collins, and Smith. HUUUGE difference.

The same exact defensive coaching staff we have now produced a defense that allowed 166 YPG passing and 245 total YPG in 2009, better than any team we've had except 2011. The same staff also produced an almost exact statistical pass defense in 2010 than in 2012 when Pruitt was here (173 YPG in '12 and 176 YPG in '10). 2010 is remembered as being a bad year, but it is only slightly better than 2012. Last year, we allowed 180 YPG passing.

Here are the numbers through the years:

2008 - 189.3
2009 - 166.0
2010 - 176.2
2011 - 111.5
2012 - 173.6
2013 - 180.3
2014 - 226.0

We gave up 61 YPG more than this than our average for the 6 prior years. Even if you throw out the amazing 2011 defense and this year, we are still averaged 176 YPG allowed. We gave up 50 YPG more this year than our average even without 2011.

Either you have to believe that our coaches suddenly forgot how to coach - THIS YEAR - or we had a big drop off in talent and execution.

Again, I'm not saying Pruitt is a bad coach, but his leaving is not why our pass defense was the worst in the Saban era (including 2007). CNS is our defacto DB coach anyway, and always has been.
Not to mention the SEC offenses have changed since Pruitt left. Things aren't the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Blindside13

All-SEC
Oct 22, 2011
1,846
1
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I realize we gave up pass yardage in this game and really all year but with the way most offenses run these days it is the nature of the beast, you throw it enough you are bound to catch some of them. The eye opener for me though was the fact they had 260 yards on the ground by one guy. That should never never happen against a defense as talented up front as we are. As mentioned in the thread already 3rd down conversions or lack of them in our case was huge. We did not get off the field on 3rd down and at times they converted by running the ball. Speaking of running well no use pounding that issue.
 

bamacpa

All-American
Jul 19, 2006
4,783
1,073
182
The thing I like about playoffs is that the season doesn't matter. Ohio State was a better team than us that day. Probably not during the season but they only needed to be better that day to move forward. Perhaps down the road it will be our day to be better. I'm glad we had our shot.
I like the payoff myself, because the endless debates over conference strength do not matter. It's 2 teams competing, winner advancing.
 

Roll Tide 57

1st Team
Oct 20, 2014
406
0
0
Plant City FL
I said before the game that Someone other than Cooper had to step up, like Nowrood & Maze did in the past no one did.

i know most won't agree with this but the loss is all on the coaches IMO.

They eh just did not look ready, not like their was a real plan like we have seen in the past. tOSU is a good team no doubt but we had the talent but not the mindset. Our D which has been a strength at Alabama forever just was not as good this year.

The other thing is before half & start of Q3 all year long have been a problem, we don't come back from half time the same.

the Best Coach that ever lived said just before & after half were very important to winning.

I truly think we fix that this year.
 

Al A Bama

Hall of Fame
Jun 24, 2011
6,658
934
132
I'm still stunned, shocked, and in a state of Alabama Crimson Tide football depression. The only thing that will help me to get out of this state of mind is a National Championship for 2015!

It's been so long since we last won it. It's about time we won another NC!

Now! That's my FINAL thought about that depressing subject. We need to stay away from the Sugar Bowl as long as Coach Saban is the coach!

This year, my plan is to have less Sugar in my diet!
 

Bamabuzzard

FB Moderator
Staff member
Aug 15, 2004
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I said before the game that Someone other than Cooper had to step up, like Nowrood & Maze did in the past no one did.

i know most won't agree with this but the loss is all on the coaches IMO.

They eh just did not look ready, not like their was a real plan like we have seen in the past. tOSU is a good team no doubt but we had the talent but not the mindset. Our D which has been a strength at Alabama forever just was not as good this year.

The other thing is before half & start of Q3 all year long have been a problem, we don't come back from half time the same.

the Best Coach that ever lived said just before & after half were very important to winning.

I truly think we fix that this year.

I can't recall but was anyone else given a legit chance at stepping up? Meaning were they thrown to enough to get in a groove? It's hard for other wr's to get involved when the overwhelming majority of balls go to one guy.
 

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