What "moderate" muslims believe

Tidewater · Jan 9, 2015

Bamabuzzard said:
92's ex wife may have wanted to slice off his head.

Point taken, although I cannot understand why.
Was she, perchance, a French Jacobin?

Displaced Bama Fan · Jan 9, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
Exactly...

Thanks....

pluckngrit · Jan 9, 2015

chanson78 said:
By these people, you mean every single person who identifies with the muslim faith correct? In that currently there are 1.6 billion people who would love nothing more than to kill 92 if they came across him. Just making sure I have it right.

I mean "radical islamist", or whatever the term du jour is.

crimsonaudio · Jan 9, 2015

The biggest issue with islam is that seemingly a true majority of muslims want their religious law to be the law of the land - the cleric in the video openly admits that. Certainly, there are some of other religions (such as some fundamentalist Christians in the US) that want to see a more religious government, but the desire from a seemingly large percentage muslims to force their religious laws onto everyone is disturbing.

As for historical views - sure, we can go back hundreds / thousands of years and find terrible things done in the name of most any religion, but generally speaking the world has moved beyond medieval thinking. Unfortunately, that seems to be precisely where islam is stuck.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jan 9, 2015

crimsonaudio said:
The biggest issue with islam is that seemingly a true majority of muslims want their religious law to be the law of the land - the cleric in the video openly admits that. Certainly, there are some of other religions (such as some fundamentalist Christians in the US) that want to see a more religious government, but the desire from a seemingly large percentage muslims to force their religious laws onto everyone is disturbing.

As for historical views - sure, we can go back hundreds / thousands of years and find terrible things done in the name of most any religion, but generally speaking the world has moved beyond medieval thinking. Unfortunately, that seems to be precisely where islam is stuck.

Shhhh. Shut yo mouth!

chanson78 · Jan 9, 2015

crimsonaudio said:
The biggest issue with islam is that seemingly a true majority of muslims want their religious law to be the law of the land - the cleric in the video openly admits that. Certainly, there are some of other religions (such as some fundamentalist Christians in the US) that want to see a more religious government, but the desire from a seemingly large percentage muslims to force their religious laws onto everyone is disturbing.

As for historical views - sure, we can go back hundreds / thousands of years and find terrible things done in the name of most any religion, but generally speaking the world has moved beyond medieval thinking. Unfortunately, that seems to be precisely where islam is stuck.

I think one large issue concerns the number that live in western society, have had the education, yet still long for a backwards, sharia law inspired society. I used to believe that if we could just get enough education that eventually people would throw off the worst of the religion, much like christianity did with regards to things like the inquisition etc, and adopt a more live and let live type attitude. The problem with islam is that there isn't even wiggle room for that kind of mentality. It is pretty explicit in its establishment of supremacy as well as its tolerance for all things not muslim.

I have become more concerned as of late with the seeming large number of educated people willing to go fight and die to impose this world view. It used to be the brainwashed poor picking up arms/bombs etc to commit terrorist attacks, but when you begin seeing children of naturalized americans get on a plane to join isis, I begin to wonder if there isn't some larger issue at heart? Maybe some innate appeal of islam to angsty teenagers?

Tidewater · Jan 9, 2015

chanson78 said:
I think one large issue concerns the number that live in western society, have had the education, yet still long for a backwards, sharia law inspired society. I used to believe that if we could just get enough education that eventually people would throw off the worst of the religion,

The jury is still out, in my view. Islam could have a period like the Wars of Religion the west had and decide to park the issue of religion to the side.

much like christianity did with regards to things like the inquisition etc, and adopt a more live and let live type attitude.

It took the Wars of Religion to bring that about. 1/3 of the people of Germany were killed in the 30 Years' War alone. After that, the west decided collectively, that the way you pray (and increasingly whether you pray or not) is between you and God.

The problem with islam is that there isn't even wiggle room for that kind of mentality. It is pretty explicit in its establishment of supremacy as well as its tolerance for all things not muslim.

I have become more concerned as of late with the seeming large number of educated people willing to go fight and die to impose this world view. It used to be the brainwashed poor picking up arms/bombs etc to commit terrorist attacks, but when you begin seeing children of naturalized americans get on a plane to join isis, I begin to wonder if there isn't some larger issue at heart? Maybe some innate appeal of islam to angsty teenagers?

In the mean time, I'm not sure I oppose angsty muslim teenagers going to Syria to fight alongside ISIL. It is easier to kill them there.

Displaced Bama Fan · Jan 9, 2015

Tidewater said:
In the mean time, I'm not sure I oppose angsty muslim teenagers going to Syria to fight alongside ISIL. It is easier to kill them there.

Agreed.

TheAccountant · Jan 9, 2015

The thing with fundamentalists from other religions is that even though they hold some pretty out there views, for the most part they just want to be left alone. I don't worry much about a fundamentalist Mormon beheading me because I said something disparaging about Joseph Smith. That's not the case with fundamentalist Muslims. Now Christians did some pretty horrible things back in the day under the guise of religion around the same time Arabs and the Muslim world were doing some pretty great things (Algebra, etc.).

What happened?

TIDE-HSV · Jan 9, 2015

TheAccountant said:
The thing with fundamentalists from other religions is that even though they hold some pretty out there views, for the most part they just want to be left alone. I don't worry much about a fundamentalist Mormon beheading me because I said something disparaging about Joseph Smith. That's not the case with fundamentalist Muslims. Now Christians did some pretty horrible things back in the day under the guise of religion around the same time Arabs and the Muslim world were doing some pretty great things (Algebra, etc.).
What happened?

Wahabism was the beginning...

Tidewater · Jan 9, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
Wahabism was the beginning...

To build on that, before World War I, the muslim world was something of a cultural backwater, interesting only for its oddity and quaintness. Much of the "great things" The Accountant mentions were results of inheriting the library of Alexandria (and the compilation of western knowledge contained therein) in the 600s AD, and building on that foundation. The sack of Baghdad (by muslim Mongols, by the way) in AD 1258 started the collapse of the advancement of Islamic civilization. The Islamic World never recovered from that and they slipped into backwardness and barbarism.

The discovery of oil in Arab lands brought large numbers of muslims into increasingly close contact with westerners, and muslims worldwide realized just how backwards they had become. Muslim Brotherhood thinkers such as Hasan al Banna of Egypt were early founders, deeply resented muslim backwardness, subjection to western outsiders. The founding of Israel, spread of oil extraction, 1970s oil embargo, islamic revolution in Iran, ejection of the Soviets from Afghanistan, etc., have all added momentum.

mittman · Jan 9, 2015

Tidewater said:
To build on that, before World War I, the muslim world was something of a cultural backwater, interesting only for its oddity and quaintness. Much of the "great things" The Accountant mentions were results of inheriting the library of Alexandria (and the compilation of western knowledge contained therein) in the 600s AD, and building on that foundation. The sack of Baghdad (by muslim Mongols, by the way) in AD 1258 started the collapse of the advancement of Islamic civilization. The Islamic World never recovered from that and they slipped into backwardness and barbarism.

The discovery of oil in Arab lands brought large numbers of muslims into increasingly close contact with westerners, and muslims worldwide realized just how backwards they had become. Muslim Brotherhood thinkers such as Hasan al Banna of Egypt were early founders, deeply resented muslim backwardness, subjection to western outsiders. The founding of Israel, spread of oil extraction, 1970s oil embargo, islamic revolution in Iran, ejection of the Soviets from Afghanistan, etc., have all added momentum.

Thank you for your insight.

There are always factors people forget when trying to understand what is really going on. Most of them we have no control over. The above proves one thing: multiple paths can get us into just as big a quagmire as an occupation. Attempting to "right" perceived wrongs; trying to isolate a country or region with sanctions; getting into bed with bad leaders to maintain a status quo are just a few.

Probius · Jan 9, 2015

There are moderates in every religion. The problem with religion lies in faith, as opposed to reason. There are two ways to deal with people, reason and force. When you remove reason, force is the only remaining option if you want to deal with people. Some religions, like the Amish, just don't deal with other people. Moderate Muslims are clearly better than radical Muslims, because they accept reason more than the radicals. It's a step in the right direction.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TIDE-HSV · Jan 9, 2015

Tidewater said:
To build on that, before World War I, the muslim world was something of a cultural backwater, interesting only for its oddity and quaintness. Much of the "great things" The Accountant mentions were results of inheriting the library of Alexandria (and the compilation of western knowledge contained therein) in the 600s AD, and building on that foundation. The sack of Baghdad (by muslim Mongols, by the way) in AD 1258 started the collapse of the advancement of Islamic civilization. The Islamic World never recovered from that and they slipped into backwardness and barbarism.

The discovery of oil in Arab lands brought large numbers of muslims into increasingly close contact with westerners, and muslims worldwide realized just how backwards they had become. Muslim Brotherhood thinkers such as Hasan al Banna of Egypt were early founders, deeply resented muslim backwardness, subjection to western outsiders. The founding of Israel, spread of oil extraction, 1970s oil embargo, islamic revolution in Iran, ejection of the Soviets from Afghanistan, etc., have all added momentum.

Here's the Wiki link on Wahabism. Most of the money funding global terrorism is believed by many to have been supplied by Wahabis. They have the harshest view of other religions and westerners in general of all the Muslim sects...

Displaced Bama Fan · Jan 11, 2015

Do muslims like to imagine their prophet in a tuxedo t-shirt? Cal and I do...

Search

What "moderate" muslims believe

Tidewater

Hall of Fame

Displaced Bama Fan

Hall of Fame

pluckngrit

Suspended

crimsonaudio

Administrator

Displaced Bama Fan

Hall of Fame

chanson78

All-American

Tidewater

Hall of Fame

Displaced Bama Fan

Hall of Fame

TheAccountant

All-SEC

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator

Tidewater

Hall of Fame

mittman

All-American

Probius

Hall of Fame

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator

Displaced Bama Fan

Hall of Fame

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!