Link: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad That's Similar To Bama's Trick Play

TideMan09

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I saw this article about John Harbaugh was having a fit over this trick play & actually learned that when a team..

"Sends out only four offensive linemen, with six players normally considered eligible receivers, one of whom reports as ineligible.. This ineligible player tells the ref, and the ref has to tell the defensive captain."..

I had no idea that the ineligible player has to tell the Ref he's ineligible & the Ref has to tell the defensive captain that player is ineligible..Isn't that the defenses problem to figure out who's ineligible & which players they should be covering by adjusting as the offense lines up in a certain formation..I didn't know Refs are supposed to tell the defensive captain which player is ineligible during a play..That's why they practice for an offense & watch game films to prepare for any situation or trick plays..


This is the play that Harbaugh was whining about & ran onto the field protesting it..It's pretty similar to our "Fat Guy" trick play(as it's called..LOL), we used to help beat The Swamp Kittens, I thought it was interesting cause Bama ran a similar play The Patriots' scored a TD with & Bama had a big play with a similar formation as well..After the game Tom Brady said "Maybe those guys gotta study the rule book and figure it out,"

I actually learned something new bout an ineligible player, the ineligible player has to tell the Ref that he's ineligible, then the Refs are supposed to relay that to the defensive captain before the play(if I understand the article right)..Is this just in the NFL or does this happen on the college level as well??..Was this a legal or an illegal play???..I hope one of you smart football rules book minds will chime in & explain if Harbaugh is right or is Brady right & this is a legal play..




Here's The Link To Bama's "Fat Guy" Trick Play..CLICK ME

 

B1GTide

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

Harbaugh has a point - if you tell the ref, the ref has to tell the defense and they also generally allow the defense time to locate the player on the field before allowing the offense to snap the ball. Harbaugh was not upset that the Pats did this - he was upset that the refs did not handle it properly. The refs let the Pats rush to the LOS and snap the ball immediately after declaring the player ineligible.

The refs deserve criticism for this, but the only reason that it came up in post game interviews is because someone asked him about the penalty that he incurred when trying to get the refs to do the right thing.
 

DzynKingRTR

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

what is the point in a "trick" play if you have to basically tell the defense you are running a trick play
 

gamersfuel

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

the play was perfectly legal. was Gronk the TE on that catch? if so, they should have had an eye on him whereas on our play nobody probably thought about our offensive lineman/TE
 

2003TIDE

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

Harbaugh has a point - if you tell the ref, the ref has to tell the defense and they also generally allow the defense time to locate the player on the field before allowing the offense to snap the ball. Harbaugh was not upset that the Pats did this - he was upset that the refs did not handle it properly. The refs let the Pats rush to the LOS and snap the ball immediately after declaring the player ineligible.

The refs deserve criticism for this, but the only reason that it came up in post game interviews is because someone asked him about the penalty that he incurred when trying to get the refs to do the right thing.
This is why I don't think they should do "allstar" ref crews in the offseason. Let them work with people they are familiar with.
 

CrimsonPride

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

Harbaugh has a point - if you tell the ref, the ref has to tell the defense and they also generally allow the defense time to locate the player on the field before allowing the offense to snap the ball. Harbaugh was not upset that the Pats did this - he was upset that the refs did not handle it properly. The refs let the Pats rush to the LOS and snap the ball immediately after declaring the player ineligible.

The refs deserve criticism for this, but the only reason that it came up in post game interviews is because someone asked him about the penalty that he incurred when trying to get the refs to do the right thing.
This was discussed in detail on the NFL Network after the game. The player told the ref that he was ineligible and the ref then told the defense that this guy is ineligible. What more is the ref supposed to do?
 

CrimsonPride

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

I saw this article about John Harbaugh was having a fit over this trick play & actually learned that when a team..

"Sends out only four offensive linemen, with six players normally considered eligible receivers, one of whom reports as ineligible.. This ineligible player tells the ref, and the ref has to tell the defensive captain."..

I had no idea that the ineligible player has to tell the Ref he's ineligible & the Ref has to tell the defensive captain that player is ineligible..Isn't that the defenses problem to figure out who's ineligible & which players they should be covering by adjusting as the offense lines up in a certain formation..I didn't know Refs are supposed to tell the defensive captain which player is ineligible during a play..That's why they practice for an offense & watch game films to prepare for any situation or trick plays..


This is the play that Harbaugh was whining about & ran onto the field protesting it..It's pretty similar to our "Fat Guy" trick play(as it's called..LOL), we used to help beat The Swamp Kittens, I thought it was interesting cause Bama ran a similar play The Patriots' scored a TD with & Bama had a big play with a similar formation as well..After the game Tom Brady said "Maybe those guys gotta study the rule book and figure it out,"

I actually learned something new bout an ineligible player, the ineligible player has to tell the Ref that he's ineligible, then the Refs are supposed to relay that to the defensive captain before the play(if I understand the article right)..Is this just in the NFL or does this happen on the college level as well??..Was this a legal or an illegal play???..I hope one of you smart football rules book minds will chime in & explain if Harbaugh is right or is Brady right & this is a legal play..




Here's The Link To Bama's "Fat Guy" Trick Play..CLICK ME

Who is the ref supposed to tell if the captain is not in the game for that play?
 
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Isaiah 63:1

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Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Tr...

There's an important difference between the Pats' play and ours: the Pats had 7 eligible numbers on the play (you're only allowed 6), whereas we had the legal 6 but just used an odd formation.

Assuming there's a problem, the simple "fix" is to disallow more than 6 eligible numbers, and require the defense to pay attention...
 
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B1GTide

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

This was discussed in detail on the NFL Network after the game. The player told the ref that he was ineligible and the ref then told the defense that this guy is ineligible. What more is the ref supposed to do?
I made that clear - you give the defense time to identify the player on the field. Maybe a 5 second delay? Instead they let the Pats rush to the LOS and run a play before the information could be properly communicated throughout the defense with the player identified.

Pretty simple, and something that happens regularly on special teams plays. The refs allowed themselves to be rushed by the Pats offense, just as college refs allow themselves to be rushed by HUNH offenses.
 

TrampLineman

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

Did the refs even tell the defense? I remember him reporting ineligible when it was live but it happened so fast I can't remember what the ref done immediately after.

Like someone else mentioned about the crews that I agree with, let the crews work together and quit using these "all star" crews that are not used to working together.
 

beatthemtigers

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

the play was perfectly legal. was Gronk the TE on that catch? if so, they should have had an eye on him whereas on our play nobody probably thought about our offensive lineman/TE
Naw it was Michael Hoomanawanui
 

RTR91

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

Did the refs even tell the defense? I remember him reporting ineligible when it was live but it happened so fast I can't remember what the ref done immediately after.

Like someone else mentioned about the crews that I agree with, let the crews work together and quit using these "all star" crews that are not used to working together.
Pretty sure the official didn't tell the defense because the Pats rushed to the line. That is why Harbaugh was so mad.
 

TideMan09

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Re: Patriots' Trick Play That Got John Harbaugh Mad &That's Similar To Bama's Trick

Isn't this pretty much what gives these HUNH offenses in college football such a big advantage..Personally..It's the purpose of being in such a hurry to cause confusing on the D side of the ball..I don't like that offenses gets away with it either & agree with Harbaugh..
 

RTR91

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The ref in the Broncos' game just announced over the PA an offensive lineman declared eligible. Sure didn't do that last night.


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AlexanderFan

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Also what helped was that a player with an eligible receiver number reported ineligible and split out wide. Now he was covered up by another player, making him ineligible anyway, so Baltimore should've recognized that.

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RTR91

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Also what helped was that a player with an eligible receiver number reported ineligible and split out wide. Now he was covered up by another player, making him ineligible anyway, so Baltimore should've recognized that.

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I'm not sure the Ravens had time to recognize it as fast as the Patriots snapped the ball.


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theballguy

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This sort of thing makes a mockery of the game. Bottom line, enforce the existing rules at least and refs: control the game. If coaches like Malzahn give you crap, give them an Unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. Sad to say, the Big 12 refs do a much better job of this than our own refs.
 

AlexanderFan

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I'm not sure the Ravens had time to recognize it as fast as the Patriots snapped the ball.


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They covered Vereen, who was ineligible. He was in the slot but was on the los with a receiver beyond him on the los, automatically making him ineligible. Baltimore could've recognized that without him reporting himself ineligible. Then you just find the last guy on the los on the other side and he is an eligible receiver.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Totally off the top of my head, but I think you notify in college mainly to avoid the inadvertent flag. We got flagged on a TD, IIRC, it may have been the 2009 NCG, because we didn't notify and the other officials had the linesman pick up the flag...
 

TideMan09

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Thanks for the info Earle..When a Ref notifies the defensive captain, is that when the D starts to adjust & move into another formation, it just never dawned on me, the offense had to let the refs know who's ineligible & then the refs notifies the defensive captain..
Totally off the top of my head, but I think you notify in college mainly to avoid the inadvertent flag. We got flagged on a TD, IIRC, it may have been the 2009 NCG, because we didn't notify and the other officials had the linesman pick up the flag...
 

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