NCAA in talks that could restore Joe Paterno's vacated wins

Gr8hope · Jan 13, 2015

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/01/12/penn-state-joe-paterno-vacated-wins-ncaa-talks

If this happens all wins that have been vacated for any reason should be restored. I know some of you here see the events at Penn State as a legal matter rather one to be addressed by The NCAA but the scandal was hidden and allowed to continue to benefit the football program. If something this heinous is not addressed by the governing body then nothing should be. IMO this is another example of seeking legal cover for breaking rules and if allowed it furthers the notion the NCAA is irrelevant.

Tidewater · Jan 13, 2015

Gr8hope said:
http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/01/12/penn-state-joe-paterno-vacated-wins-ncaa-talks

If this happens all wins that have been vacated for any reason should be restored. I know some of you here see the events at Penn State as a legal matter rather one to be addressed by The NCAA but the scandal was hidden and allowed to continue to benefit the football program. If something this heinous is not addressed by the governing body then nothing should be. IMO this is another example of seeking legal cover for breaking rules and if allowed it furthers the notion the NCAA is irrelevant.

I just find the whole "vacated wins" thing to be more than a little Orwellian.

mittman · Jan 14, 2015

Gr8hope said:
http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/01/12/penn-state-joe-paterno-vacated-wins-ncaa-talks

If this happens all wins that have been vacated for any reason should be restored. I know some of you here see the events at Penn State as a legal matter rather one to be addressed by The NCAA but the scandal was hidden and allowed to continue to benefit the football program. If something this heinous is not addressed by the governing body then nothing should be. IMO this is another example of seeking legal cover for breaking rules and if allowed it furthers the notion the NCAA is irrelevant.

I do fall in that category, and agree with Tidewater. Vacated wins is a stupid punishment. However, this seemed to be the one way to punish Paterno himself. Also if you are going to put a punishment in place it should not be reviewed unless information comes out that the reason the punishment was put in place was not accurate. This is not the case, and further weakens any future action. The way this was and continues to be handled is bad news bears level.

TideEngineer08 · Jan 14, 2015

Yes, the vacated wins thing is stupid.. but it has been the punishment the ncaa chose and lifting it for Paterno means that we ought to get our wins back too.

Getting extra textbooks in no way compares to sheltering a child rapist. This entire thing has been the most sickening depraved scandal to ever hit collegiate athletics and the ncaa has bungled it at every turn. I cannot express how strongly I feel that everyone in that organization should be fired, and the organization disbanded.

BamaPokerplayer · Jan 14, 2015

People say that PSU did not gain a recruiting advantage from the Sandusky stuff. I'm betting a few less blue chippers would have attended there, if they knew their anal virginity was on the line.

TIDE-HSV · Jan 14, 2015

mittman said:
I do fall in that category, and agree with Tidewater. Vacated wins is a stupid punishment. However, this seemed to be the one way to punish Paterno himself. Also if you are going to put a punishment in place it should not be reviewed unless information comes out that the reason the punishment was put in place was not accurate. This is not the case, and further weakens any future action. The way this was and continues to be handled is bad news bears level.

I agree in general, but it really worked to our advantage in the Langham probation. The head of the next Infractions Committee came along and pronounced the sanctions too draconian and reduced them. One problem with the NCAA is that the only "institutional memory" exists in the professional staff. We found out what happens when you get on the bad side of just one obsessed investigator...

TIDE-HSV · Jan 14, 2015

BamaPokerplayer said:
People say that PSU did not gain a recruiting advantage from the Sandusky stuff. I'm betting a few less blue chippers would have attended there, if they knew their anal virginity was on the line.

I believe he specialized in kids, who couldn't beat his butt like a player could...

Tide1986 · Jan 14, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
I believe he specialized in kids, who couldn't beat his butt like a player could...

Some crafty wording right there...

Catfish · Jan 14, 2015

Bobby Bowden would not be pleased if this happens.

I'm tempted to support it, but, well, you know...

selmaborntidefan · Jan 14, 2015

I'm sorry, and I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I thought the whole thing was a stupid overkill anyway. It was little more than politicians trying to outdo one another in being "tough on crime" in order to be popular.

As heinous as it was, it had not a thing to do with the football field at all. And vacated wins is the dumbest punishment ever invented anyway. Do any of you actually think we remember the 56-3 bludgeoning of La Tech as anything OTHER than a win?

Go Bama · Jan 14, 2015

selmaborntidefan said:
I'm sorry, and I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I thought the whole thing was a stupid overkill anyway. It was little more than politicians trying to outdo one another in being "tough on crime" in order to be popular.

As heinous as it was, it had not a thing to do with the football field at all. And vacated wins is the dumbest punishment ever invented anyway. Do any of you actually think we remember the 56-3 bludgeoning of La Tech as anything OTHER than a win?

I couldn't possibly agree more.

selmaborntidefan · Jan 14, 2015

Catfish said:
Bobby Bowden would not be pleased if this happens.

I'm tempted to support it, but, well, you know...

I got to admit this is hilarious....

GrayTide · Jan 15, 2015

Vacating wins is just about the stupidest thing I have heard in my life. The next thing will be to vacate the seasons which means the school had no football team in those years. The NCAA needs to be disbanded.

CrimsonNagus · Jan 15, 2015

I work at a local college and we just had to go to a Title IX training class yesterday. We were told, as employees of the college and according to Title IX, if we know of any, or are told of any, sexual assault incidents that we must report it to the college's Title IX coordinator and not law enforcement. Maybe Paterno was just following Title IX?

Anyway, if their wins are restored then all vacated wins for everyone should be restored.

Tidewater · Jan 15, 2015

RollTide1017 said:
I work at a local college and we just had to go to a Title IX training class yesterday. We were told, as employees of the college and according to Title IX, if we know of any, or are told of any, sexual assault incidents that we must report it to the college's Title IX coordinator and not law enforcement. Maybe Paterno was just following Title IX?

Anyway, if their wins are restored then all vacated wins for everyone should be restored.

True, but the NCAA is not a judicial organization. Title IX is part f the United States Code, with all the baggage that brings.
I just find vacating and unvacating wins to be weird. Just like if the NCAA entered into negotiations to declare that there were only seven reasons why Henry III was a bad king. I guess the NCAA can declare anything it wants about reality, but the record is what the record is. It is presumptuous and weird to declare reality is not reality.
"We've always been at war with Oceania."

TIDE-HSV · Jan 15, 2015

Tidewater said:
True, but the NCAA is not a judicial organization. Title IX is part f the United States Code, with all the baggage that brings.
I just find vacating and unvacating wins to be weird. Just like if the NCAA entered into negotiations to declare that there were only seven reasons why Henry III was a bad king. I guess the NCAA can declare anything it wants about reality, but the record is what the record is. It is presumptuous and weird to declare reality is not reality.
"We've always been at war with Oceania."

I find it puerile also. The reason they took it up was because there was a lot of griping and moaning about prohibiting bowl games by the conferences, because all teams took the financial hit. They used to use the retroactive forfeit, but that inflated the records of the opponents. It's a stupid device and I agree with all above that, if Paterno gets his back, I want ours back for the textbook caper. No kid got molested in our textbook case...

Gr8hope · Jan 15, 2015

While I agree with all of you that vacating wins is not the way control should be maintained over programs that have not followed the rules or hidden crimes, my point is the control should be consistent for all institutions. It is not. While silly violations are held to a high standard, something so heinous as the situation at Penn State is in consideration for forgiveness.

JBama_in_PCOLA · Jan 15, 2015

Slippery slope if they do.

Can we get back Bama's?

mittman · Jan 15, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
I agree in general, but it really worked to our advantage in the Langham probation. The head of the next Infractions Committee came along and pronounced the sanctions too draconian and reduced them. One problem with the NCAA is that the only "institutional memory" exists in the professional staff. We found out what happens when you get on the bad side of just one obsessed investigator...

I can see the need for review if an investigator's tactics, or someone in the decision making chain is found to have other motives. For me this falls under my caveat if it is later found that an investigator was not acting ethically. I just don't see it in this case. Everything was pretty much out in the open, and the NCAA was just bowing to pressure from everywhere to do whatever they could do. I just may not be seeing or understanding the reason for the review. It would not hurt my feelings if the penalty was reversed. However, reversing the decision IMO accomplishes only one thing: Further proving that this is a incredibly flawed system.

bamacon · Jan 15, 2015

Well, JoePa vacated his moral compass and his responsibilities by his lack of action. I'd say he and the Univ. should pay with the punishment and/or fine. Not sure how punishing current and future players "Teaches a lesson."

I see it as me getting pulled over for speeding in my red truck. And them giving the ticket to the next red truck they see, and them pulling their license.

NCAA in talks that could restore Joe Paterno's vacated wins

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