Greece Embraces "Radical Leftist" Party

TIDE-HSV · Jul 7, 2015

Sniffs bait; swims away...

TIDE-HSV · Jul 7, 2015

One of the better analyses of the Greek crisis I've seen. (Maybe because he agrees with me.) I always thought monetary union without economic centralization was bound to collapse. May be the time...

LINK

Tide1986 · Jul 8, 2015

Here's a humorous response to the New York Times and its editorial articles on Greece:

http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/201...the-new-york-times/?singlepage=true#undefined

But all is not lost. The sums Greece wants are quite large, it is true, but every little bit can make a difference. And, as Mr. Krugman & Co. would be the first to insist, this a moral imperative. There’s bleeding going on. It must be stopped. People have to take a stand. So here’s my modest proposal. When the markets open today, The New York Timesshould shift their entire pension portfolio into Greek bonds, beginning with whatever holdings Messrs. Cohen, Krugman, and members of the editorial board may have. It may be an adventurous investment, but, hey, were talking about medicines and imported food on the supermarket shelves in Athens. What an edifying spectacle: rancid lefties at a once-important paper put their money—their own money, for once—where their loud mouths are.

By itself, the Times won’t make a big difference. But what an example! And perhaps—we can only hope!—other left-wing organizations will follow suit and, instead of trying to spend your money or the Germans’ money, they will invest their own money in Greek bonds, thus showing the world that they are really serious about economic redistribution. What started as a trickle from the office of The New York Times may become a raging current of altruistic investment in a real-life socialist utopia. “The important thing now,” Mr. Krugman says, “is to do whatever it takes to end the bleeding.” Let’s start with his own savings and pension as the first bandaid.

Tide1986 · Jul 8, 2015

Here is a reflective article on the current situation:

http://www.realclearworld.com/artic...ek_vote_and_the_eu_miscalculation_111299.html

The European leaders have therefore backed themselves into the corner they didn't want. If they hold their position, then they open the door to the idea that there is life after the European Union, and that is the one thought the EU leaders do not want validated. Therefore, it is likely that the Europeans, having discovered that Syriza is not prepared to submit to European diktat, will now negotiate a deal Greece can accept. But then that is another precedent the European Union didn't want to set.

Behind all this, the Germans are considering the future of the European Union. They are less concerned about the euro or Greek debt than they are about the free trade zone that absorbs part of their massive exports. With credit controls and default, Greece is one tiny market they lose. The last thing they want is for this to spread, or for Germany to be forced to pay for the privilege of saving it. In many ways, therefore, our eyes should shift from Greece to Germany. It is at the heart of the EU leadership, and it is going to be calling the next shot - not for the good of the bloc, but for the good of Germany, which is backed into the same corner as the rest of the European Union.

Tidewater · Jul 8, 2015

Tide1986 said:
Here is a reflective article on the current situation:

http://www.realclearworld.com/artic...ek_vote_and_the_eu_miscalculation_111299.html

I read stuff like that and I think leaving the Eurozone and leaving the European Union are two very separate decisions. Remember, the UK is a member of the EU, but not the Eurozone.
I am not sure why authors continue to act like leaving the Eurozone equals leaving the EU.

NationalTitles18 · Jul 8, 2015

Tidewater said:
I read stuff like that and I think leaving the Eurozone and leaving the European Union are two very separate decisions. Remember, the UK is a member of the EU, but not the Eurozone.
I am not sure why authors continue to act like leaving the Eurozone equals leaving the EU.

Ignorance?

TIDE-HSV · Jul 8, 2015

Tide1986 said:
Here is a reflective article on the current situation:

http://www.realclearworld.com/artic...ek_vote_and_the_eu_miscalculation_111299.html

That is not just a "good" article, it is a "great" article. I'm going to forward it to my client/friend in Greece. Of course, he is concerned now mostly with the misery in his home village. Seeing the big picture might help a bit. Oh, I love the "Euroskeptic" term. That's what I've been from the very beginning...

TIDE-HSV · Jul 8, 2015

Tidewater said:
I read stuff like that and I think leaving the Eurozone and leaving the European Union are two very separate decisions. Remember, the UK is a member of the EU, but not the Eurozone.
I am not sure why authors continue to act like leaving the Eurozone equals leaving the EU.

I'm not too sure it's not the same, in the endgame. Britain can stand alone. Can Greece?

Tidewater · Jul 8, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
I'm not too sure it's not the same, in the endgame. Britain can stand alone. Can Greece?

I don't know. Good question. Probably not, but if they bring back the drachma and let it float against the Euro, then it will drop like a rock, making Greek exports more competitive. If the drachma drops enough, then Greek products that were not competitive (while in the Eurozone) may become competitive.

crimsonaudio · Jul 8, 2015

Tidewater said:
If the drachma drops enough, then Greek products that were not competitive (while in the Eurozone) may become competitive.

Truly clueless question here, but do the Greeks make stuff people want?

NationalTitles18 · Jul 8, 2015

crimsonaudio said:
Truly clueless question here, but do the Greeks make stuff people want?

I was just going to say "Olives" and be done with it, but...

https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/grc/

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/exports

ETA: http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/economic_paper/2014/pdf/ecp518_en.pdf

Tidewater · Jul 8, 2015

crimsonaudio said:
Truly clueless question here, but do the Greeks make stuff people want?

That is the cool thing about economics, with the right exchange rate, they could export anything. While they are members of the Eurozone, not much.

Tide1986 · Jul 8, 2015

crimsonaudio said:
Truly clueless question here, but do the Greeks make stuff people want?

Probably feta cheese and goat cheese, but people would generally buy these from the Greeks regardless of the price given the provenance.

There's ouzo too.

seebell · Jul 8, 2015

crimsonaudio said:
Truly clueless question here, but do the Greeks make stuff people want?

Greek Yogurt!... Duh

Good article BTW 1986.

TIDE-HSV · Jul 9, 2015

NationalTitles15 said:
I was just going to say "Olives" and be done with it, but...

https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/grc/

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/exports

ETA: http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/economic_paper/2014/pdf/ecp518_en.pdf

Wow! In view of those numbers, it's hard to say anything other than "They're not really even trying..."

crimsonaudio · Jul 9, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
Wow! In view of those numbers, it's hard to say anything other than "They're not really even trying..."

Yah, and I asked the question based on all the reports that have been flowing out of Greece over the last decade about how corrupt the government is combined with how (frankly) lazy the people (very generally speaking) seem to be.

CajunCrimson · Jul 9, 2015

Entitlements do make the masses lazy and non-productive

Tidewater · Jul 9, 2015

crimsonaudio said:
Yah, and I asked the question based on all the reports that have been flowing out of Greece over the last decade about how corrupt the government is combined with how (frankly) lazy the people (very generally speaking) seem to be.

I worked for a guy in a factory in Houston who used to work incredibly hard. Then again, where was he living? Texas, not Thessaloniki. Maybe he realized the futility of working his butt off at home and went to somewhere where he would be able to keep most of his earnings.

Interestingly, his daughter, who was my age and lived most of the time in Athens, spent some time working in the factory and showing me Greek Communist Party propaganda, photos of "weapons being offloaded into Turkey from a US submarine."
I asked her, "you don't think there are more efficient ways to ship arms to Turkey besides a submarine?" She was bright, but terribly naive.

Anyway, I suppose that the environment is important. Chris (in Texas) worked hard. His daughter (in Athens) spent her time buying into Communist propaganda.

Bamaro · Jul 9, 2015

Whats in the water? It seems that if you are a Mediterranean peninsula (Iberian, Italy, Greece), fiscal responsibility is not your strong card.

Tidewater · Jul 9, 2015

Bamaro said:
Whats in the water? It seems that if you are a Mediterranean peninsula (Iberian, Italy, Greece), fiscal responsibility is not your strong card.

Work ethic (or lack thereof).
I used to walk around the NATO headquarters in Naples at 2:01 pm and the only folks you found still working were the Germans, the Americans, the Brits, and the odd Canadian. Then a colleague told me "NATO" stands for "Not After Two O'clock."

Greece Embraces "Radical Leftist" Party

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