Greece Embraces "Radical Leftist" Party

Tidewater · Jan 26, 2015

In elections over the weekend, the Greeks voted. In 2010, suffering from staggering debt (due to overpromising social spending), Greece had to go to the IMF, the European Central Bank and the European Commission and beg for money to bail them out. In exchange for the loans, the Greeks had to cut spending and adopt austerity measures. The other show dropped this weekend: radical left electoral victory.
Syriza, the quasi-communist party, promised to stop the austerity.
"If Greece is unable to honor its obligations this year, then economic, financial and banking stress is likely to lead either to an agreement, or to a second round of elections, or to an EMU exit," from the eurozone.
The Dismal Science always gets the last word.
The Greeks will continue a form of the austerity measures or they will exit the Euro, bring back the drachma, and continue to tax and spend, for a while. Eventually, however, that house of cards will collapse as well.
The Dismal Science always gets the last word.

Bodhisattva · Jan 26, 2015

The Greek leftists need re-brand their class warfare, tax-and-spend-the-economy-over-the-cliff policies "middle class economics." Sounds so much more compassionate.

crimsonaudio · Jan 26, 2015

SMH - those people will never learn, especially if the EU keeps bailing them out.

Tidewater · Jan 26, 2015

Bodhisattva said:
The Greek leftists need re-brand their class warfare, tax-and-spend-the-economy-over-the-cliff policies "middle class economics." Sounds so much more compassionate.

In 2010, when the Greeks were in deep kimchi and desperately needed a bailout just to avoid having a catastrophic economic meltdown, they turned to the Germans for help. "I promise, we'll pull out heads out of our backside. Promise. Please help us."
The Germans agreed to help.
Now, the Germans are, what's the word I'm looking for? "Less than happy" at this turn of events. My German colleagues are saying that the Greeks can go jump in a lake next time they need help (and with the victory of Syriza, they are absolutely certain to need help).
Meanwhile, Greek leftists are dancing in the streets, screaming, "Yea! We just screwed ourselves!"
It'll be fun to watch another leftist state go down the drain.

Tidewater · Jan 26, 2015

crimsonaudio said:
SMH - those people will never learn, especially if the EU keeps bailing them out.

After this slap in the face, I honestly expect the EMC to just boot the Greeks out of the Eurozone and let them use the drachma.

TIDE-HSV · Jan 26, 2015

Tidewater said:
In 2010, when the Greeks were in deep kimchi and desperately needed a bailout just to avoid having a catastrophic economic meltdown, they turned to the Germans for help. "I promise, we'll pull out heads out of our backside. Promise. Please help us."
The Germans agreed to help.
Now, the Germans are, what's the word I'm looking for? "Less than happy" at this turn of events. My German colleagues are saying that the Greeks can go jump in a lake next time they need help (and with the victory of Syriza, they are absolutely certain to need help).
Meanwhile, Greek leftists are dancing in the streets, screaming, "Yea! We just screwed ourselves!"
It'll be fun to watch another leftist state go down the drain.

The word you need is "unglücklich." The problem is that, in the Euro Zone, you have a monetary, one currency, union, but you have no unified monetary policy, unlike here. So, you have the conservative Germans in the same bed with the "enjoy life today" Greeks. The Germans' repeated attempts to impose a central monetary control has been rebuffed by the other EU members, and not just by the Greeks. All of the rest of them fear and resent the Germans. I predict the Germans will get fed up and go back to the Deutschmark. In fact, I predicted way back when it was formed that the EU would eventually crash. There's just too much difference between a German and an Italian or a Greek...

Tidewater · Jan 26, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
The word you need is "unglücklich." The problem is that, in the Euro Zone, you have a monetary, one currency, union, but you have no unified monetary policy, unlike here. So, you have the conservative Germans in the same bed with the "enjoy life today" Greeks. The Germans' repeated attempts to impose a central monetary control has been rebuffed by the other EU members, and not just by the Greeks. All of the rest of them fear and resent the Germans. I predict the Germans will get fed up and go back to the Deutschmark. In fact, I predicted way back when it was formed that the EU would eventually crash. There's just too much difference between a German and an Italian or a Greek...

Interesting. The Germans I'm talking to are ticked. They feel taken advantage of.
Like, if your little sister comes to you in a panic saying, "lend me $2000, or I'm going to get evicted from my house!"
You lend her the money with a repayment schedule and two months later she comes back saying, "I don't want to pay you back, I want to go to Fort Walton Beach with the repayment money instead of paying you back."
You say, "I'm sorry, but I did not loan you that money so you could go to the beach. Pay it back as promised and as scheduled."
And she says, "You're just being a b*st*rd. I'm going to the beach anyway."
Next time she comes to you for money, you'd probably say, "Sorry to hear that. Good luck sorting this out."

Bama Reb · Jan 26, 2015

Unfortunately there are many in our own country who refuse to learn by the mistakes of others.

Bama Reb · Jan 26, 2015

Tidewater said:
Interesting. The Germans I'm talking to are ticked. They feel taken advantage of.
Like, if your little sister comes to you in a panic saying, "lend me $2000, or I'm going to get evicted from my house!"
You lend her the money with a repayment schedule and two months later she comes back saying, "I don't want to pay you back, I want to go to Fort Walton Beach with the repayment money instead of paying you back."
You say, "I'm sorry, but I did not loan you that money so you could go to the beach. Pay it back as promised and as scheduled."
And she says, "You're just being a b*st*rd. I'm going to the beach anyway."
Next time she comes to you for money, you'd probably say, "Sorry to hear that good luck sorting this out."

Been there, done that. I've loaned money to family members who have in turn refused to pay it back. The next time they came to me needing money I refused them back.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Bamabuzzard · Jan 26, 2015

Bama Reb said:
Been there, done that. I've loaned money to family members who have in turn refused to pay it back. The next time they came to me needing money I refused them back.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

My brother in law gave his first cousin some help about ten years ago. He said he was going through a rough time, having family issues, work issues etc. My BIL gave him over $500 cash. To this day he hasn't paid him back. Yet he has an expensive hobby that takes precedence over anything and I mean ANYTHING. Bass fishing. He has a very expensive bass boat, fishes in tournaments and even has some corporate sponsors. Yet he can't pay my BIL back the $500. Who needs enemies when you have family?

Bodhisattva · Jan 26, 2015

From the article:

Tsipras won on promises to demand debt forgiveness

What's the Greek word for "chutzpah"?

crimsonaudio · Jan 26, 2015

Tidewater said:
After this slap in the face, I honestly expect the EMC to just boot the Greeks out of the Eurozone and let them use the drachma.

Yah, seems like there was serious discussion about this a year or two ago when the crisis peaked, before Germany stepped in and bailed them out...

TIDE-HSV · Jan 26, 2015

Tidewater said:
Interesting. The Germans I'm talking to are ticked. They feel taken advantage of.
Like, if your little sister comes to you in a panic saying, "lend me $2000, or I'm going to get evicted from my house!"
You lend her the money with a repayment schedule and two months later she comes back saying, "I don't want to pay you back, I want to go to Fort Walton Beach with the repayment money instead of paying you back."
You say, "I'm sorry, but I did not loan you that money so you could go to the beach. Pay it back as promised and as scheduled."
And she says, "You're just being a b*st*rd. I'm going to the beach anyway."
Next time she comes to you for money, you'd probably say, "Sorry to hear that good luck sorting this out."

Oh, I didn't mean to intimate that there wasn't mutual resentment. Most Germans feel greatly put upon by the Greeks...

Tidewater · Feb 1, 2015

Germany, ECB play hardball with Greece

The ECB does not accept Greek sovereign bonds as collateral in its refinancing operations as they are below investment grade. However, it allows central bank financing to Greek banks as the country is in a bailout program. Erkki Liikanen, a member of the ECB's policymaking Governing Council, said that funding, too, could dry up if Greece does not remain in a program.

It will be interesting to watch this play out.
It just appears to me that the Greek people have raised a giant middle finger to the very people who were willing to help them when they were in deep trouble.

seebell · Feb 1, 2015

Tidewater said:
Germany, ECB play hardball with Greece

It will be interesting to watch this play out.
It just appears to me that the Greek people have raised a giant middle finger to the very people who were willing to help them when they were in deep trouble.

It is understandable to me why Greeks voted for a new path. Unemployment at 28%. Youth unemployment at 65%. No improvement in 6 years of austerity. Those are the things revolutions are made of. A wise course? I don't know.

Tidewater · Feb 1, 2015

seebell said:
It is understandable to me why Greeks voted for a new path. Unemployment at 28%. Youth unemployment at 65%. No improvement in 6 years of austerity. Those are the things revolutions are made of. A wise course? I don't know.

Perhaps, but the Syriza Party promised to return to doing the very things that got Greece into so much trouble to begin with (spending like drunken sailors on social safety net programs.) That strikes me a counterproductive. It will end with Greece being kicked out of the Eurozone by the more responsible members, which will buy Greece a little time during which they can bring back the drachma, continue overspending for a while, but the dismal science always gets the last word. Even leaving the Eurozone won't allow Greece to spend recklessly in perpetuity. Eventually, people just won't buy Greek securities because they will be seen as such a bad repayment risk. Then Greece will have to either seriously curtail spending (more seriously then they are now), inflate away the debt or repudiate the debt. That last option is a card you can play just once in a nation's existence.
Leaving the Eurozone, bringing back the drachma and inflating away the debt may make Zimbabwe and Weimar Germany look like paragons of fiscal responsibility.

Tide1986 · Feb 1, 2015

seebell said:
It is understandable to me why Greeks voted for a new path. Unemployment at 28%. Youth unemployment at 65%. No improvement in 6 years of austerity. Those are the things revolutions are made of. A wise course? I don't know.

They will simply jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

MOAN · Feb 1, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
Oh, I didn't mean to intimate that there wasn't mutual resentment. Most Germans feel greatly put upon by the Greeks...

Off subject..but a while back on one or two of these topics on here, can't recall which, I mentioned doing some stone work for a German couple that lived on Chandler Dr. there in Huntsville on the side of Monte Santo. I couldn't recall their names at the time but think it is something like "Maxnine" or close. I know its not spelled like that but I think it sounds something like that and can't recall his first name as i never called him by that just Mr. Maxnine, maybe it will ring a bell for you if you know them.

He was in the Hitler Youth and a broken leg was the only thing that kept him from seeing action at the end of the war. He was an engineer at NASA and I think his wife may have worked out on the arsenal too. Real nice guy.

seebell · Feb 1, 2015

http://rt.com/news/228223-podemos-mass-rally-spain/

Spain moves to the left?

Tens of thousands of Spaniards have taken to the streets of central Madrid in support of Podemos, a leftist political party campaigning on an anti-austerity platform. The party’s popularity has soared in the wake of the Syriza victory in Greece.
Podemos, which means “We can,” is currently leading in opinion polls, ahead of both of Spain’s mainstream parties as the regional, municipal and national elections approach.
We can? Didn't Barack say " Yes we can?"

Gr8hope · Feb 1, 2015

We are living in interesting times and they are going to be more interesting in the coming years.
While I hate to see the pain that is coming to these countries I am encouraged it will bring about the failure of the Central Bank controlled Euro monetary system and true responsibility in the long run. Socialism seems like a good idea until "you run out of other peoples' money."

Greece Embraces "Radical Leftist" Party

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