News Article: SIAP - Erica Kinsman Goes Public (Jameis Winston's Alleged Victim)

I guess I was a little late with my reply. Haha. Not sure if B1GTide will even see it.

bamabelle1991 said:

I get what you are saying and for the most part I agree. But, here is your statistically irrelevant proof...It happened.

The situation I am referring to was a girl (who had a boyfriend) had been flirting with another boy. She invited him to the school locker room after school for oral sex. He had two friends who were with him who were the lookouts--after all, it was baseball season and people were in and out of the facility all afternoon. She has sex with the first guy and then invited boy #2 in. During this rendevous, her boyfriend walked in. To avoid a problem with him, she waited until he left and then snuck out of the locker room. She told her parents she was raped. The police questioned the boys and all three of them had the same story. After they questioned her, she broke down and told them the truth--that she instigated the sex acts and they were consensual and she only said it was rape when her boyfriend walked in. Bottom line here--she was a girl who regularly gave out sexual favors and when she got caught, she lied and eventually her conscience took over and she did the right thing. Of course, the boys should have say no thanks, but come on--3 teenage boys? LOL. They aren't going to say no. Because of her actions, 2 otherwise fine young men almost faced rape charges and if found delinquent, a year in a sex offender program and a lifetime of registering and reporting as sex offenders. She almost ruined THEIR lives. NOT COOL.

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Has to be a legend. Someone else's thoughts. Even females are trying to protect the predators.

I'm not making light of rape, but rational discussion seems to be tangent to some or one poster.

B1GTide said:

I will - this is my last post in this thread. But you need to have your views on this challenged.

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It would take a monumental effort for anyone to undo the harm you have done to your argument with your caricatural, almost satirical hyperbole.

I completely agree with B1GTide. I know many women who have been raped, but not one man/boy who was falsely accused. Not one falsely accused or even arrested. I do know many women scarred for life from relatives, boyfriends, acquaintances, etc. None of these women went after the men/boys who raped them. It's just too difficult, and so many people will simply brush off or blame these women for something, instead of blaming the disgusting predators for their actions. It's like blaming someone for being downtown at night for getting shot, and not blaming the person pulling the trigger on a gun. I don't care what situation these women were in, if they stay stop, and the men don't stop. It's rape and not the women's fault. Sorry folks if you can't see this. Winston clearly follows this pattern, and the TPD is clearly doing it's best to cover up everything possible.

This thread has gotten too emotional.

B1G, I agree that rape is a bigger problem than false accusation because of the numbers, but one does not justify the other. If the law were changed to guilty until proven innocent I'm not sure that would deter rape. I don't know what the answer is, but IMO it's somewhere in between these two extremes. We have to respect innocent until proven guilty, regardless of the crime.

Which is worse, to be raped or to be falsely accused? Both ruin innocent lives.

mdb-tpet said:

I completely agree with B1GTide. I know many women who have been raped, but not one man/boy who was falsely accused. Not one falsely accused or even arrested. I do know many women scarred for life from relatives, boyfriends, acquaintances, etc. None of these women went after the men/boys who raped them.

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This is the problem. It's like the Democrat at one of the colleges in 1972 that said, "I don't know how Nixon won. I don't know ANYONE that voted for him." Radical perspectives are the result of unequal exposure to situations.

mdb-tpet said:

It's just too difficult, and so many people will simply brush off or blame these women for something, instead of blaming the disgusting predators for their actions. It's like blaming someone for being downtown at night for getting shot, and not blaming the person pulling the trigger on a gun. I don't care what situation these women were in, if they stay stop, and the men don't stop. It's rape and not the women's fault. Sorry folks if you can't see this. Winston clearly follows this pattern, and the TPD is clearly doing it's best to cover up everything possible.

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It seems to be some people's viewpoint that pointing out a bad decision by someone who becomes a victim is BLAMING them for something and that blaming them is equivalent to removing blame from the perpetrator. That's not the case. If I am driving in an area with a lot of bars just after 2AM and I am struck by a drunk driver, someone might point out that one factor in the accident is that 2AM isn't a good time to be driving around that area. That doesn't make me culpable in any way for what happened to me and it doesn't make the drunk driver less culpable. It is just a factor that increased the probability that I would encounter a drunk driver. If a woman leaves a group of friends with a guy that she doesn't know and is raped, pointing out that her decision was a factor in her being the victim is NOT excusing the rapist or making excuses for him. It's an example which should be used to educate others.

There are going to be men who rape. The best defense for a woman is to make good decisions about certain situations or scenarios. That's the reality of life. We all have to make decisions about our actions that determine outcomes and sometimes we can't just do what we want. To pretend that the situation regarding rape is any different is not reality. People who tell the truth about the consequences of certain behaviors are not protecting anyone other than women who could become victims of rape but don't because they made a better decision when a situation arose that could have had a bad outcome as a result of the wrong decision.

mdb-tpet said:

It's like blaming someone for being downtown at night for getting shot, and not blaming the person pulling the trigger on a gun. I don't care what situation these women were in, if they stay stop, and the men don't stop. It's rape and not the women's fault. Sorry folks if you can't see this.

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Situation: I want to take a walk to enjoy a mild autumn night.
Choice 1: Go to the well-lit city park where there are many other people.
Choice 2: Go to the poorly-lit downtown where crack addicts hang out and the crime rate is high.
Decision: I think I'll go downtown. Choice 2.
Outcome: I am robbed and shot.
Probability of same outcome for Choice 1: 3%

Police: "You shouldn't walk downtown at midnight. You should have went to the park instead."
Victim: "How dare you blame me! You are protecting the perpetrator by blaming me for my choice. This means that you are not going to prosecute the shooter, doesn't it? These are not your thoughts, are they? You've just been taught to blame me and justify the robber and you accept it."

Family: "What on earth were you doing downtown at midnight?"
Victim: "Why don't you just adopt the robber since you're putting ALL THE BLAME on me? This wasn't my fault at all. My choice had nothing to do with me being shot! I'll walk where I want because in my utopian dream, we can all walk where we want and ignore our judgement and there are no consequences for bad decisions. You've all been brainwashed into thinking that decisions have consequences and that sometimes our decisions are a factor in what happens to us. That's hooey! Uncle Bob dropped out of school at 9, gets drunk all the time, and steals from his employers. I'm sure that you'll tell me that his decisions are the reason he can't get a job, but it isn't his fault at all. QUIT BLAMING THE VICTIM."

Bamabuzzard said:

No sir I don't. Automatically deeming someone guilty before ever lifting a finger of investigation is an idiotic approach. I'm done with this and so are you.

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I believe this is Mrs. BIGTide. Just fyi.

RammerJammer14 said:

I believe this is Mrs. BIGTide. Just fyi.

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That might explain why B1GTide isn't worried about being falsely accused of rape.

Of course, I don't guess that is even a guarantee.

Late to the discussion. I have a real big problem with "guilty until proven innocent". Anyone remember the hundreds who were falsely accused of child molestation in the '80s?
I wonder how many of the Cosby accusers have "repressed" memories which are now surfacing. Another big problem in the '80s and '90s.

Valid arguments on both sides. Innocent put away; guilty go free.

B1GTide said:

I do not accept that many men have been falsely accused of rape. Everyone has a story like the one posted earlier. They are "legend". I simply do not believe them. You can if you wish. I do not and will not. A woman gets drunk and has sex with a man and admits later in court that she might have consented - the man does not go to jail unless he has a prior record, there are other extenuating circumstances (he drugged her drink or got her drunk on purpose) or she is under-aged. Period. Show me evidence where it has happened and I will consider it, but I don't accept an internet legend as proof of anything.

Women are raped every day - hundreds of women - maybe more - every day. Most are raped by someone that they know and trust, not by a stranger that they picked up at a bar. But you are afraid that you will be falsely accused? Please. How about the fear for the women being raped? Save your fear for them. I am not afraid for myself or my sons.

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Well you need to get out more. There are several instances that I knew people who were falsely accused of rape because one person was either ashamed of doing it or wanted to cover up their own actions. Rape is wrong, but saying guilty until proven innocent is equally as wrong because it is very hard to prove or disprove rape due to the law of consent. It is worth noting that 80% of rapes are between people that closely know people, so this sterotype of it being a stranger at a hole in the wall bar is very rare occasion. So if you falsely charge someone with sexual assualt you could totally wreck their life and they will be labeled that way for life. Also its worth noting that men can also be raped as well.

but to the story at hand... I think people have gave their opinion for the last two years, and I think its safe to say that noting is going to happen so it might be best to move on and enjoy the Super bowl and National Signing Day in the next few weeks.

how is this not on nonsports already?


and some of you are part of the problem

This should go to the NSB.

I personally know victims on both sides of this discussion. I also believe "Date Rape" is where most of the disagreement comes from.

The guy who uses a weapon after breaking into a woman's home is clearly not in any grey area with everyone in this thread.

I was never and am still not afraid I'll ever be accused of rape. Not because it's imposable, but because of my behavior with and before the girls and women I had relations with.

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In regards to girls being "Cleat Chasers" or the ones I knew, would probably only scream rape if it was a clear and definite rape. They would be more likely to call out their date to his face in public, not that it would do much legally. He could always sue for Defamation Slander and Libel but he would then have the burden of proof.
l. The girl at Vanderbilt probably would never have even known how abused she was if not for the rapists proudly displaying their misbehavior to all their buddies and video evidence. Clearly there is a disconnect in the mind of such individuals.

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I watched the movie Gone Girl. I liked the movie but it didn't give me pause to reflect on any people in real life.

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The tragedy is how some people are aligned with or against Erica Kinsman or Jameis Winston when the evidence was so poorly handled by the FSU police it's likely the public will never agree on who is at fault. The FSU investigation or lack-there-of is a travesty.

I hope I'm not out of line, but can someone possibly TL;DR this thread to me? Like is anything actually going to come of this? Because I'm hearing that the girl may not have a legitimate case.



and I sincerly apologize in advance

dWarriors88 said:

I hope I'm not out of line, but can someone possibly TL;DR this thread to me? Like is anything actually going to come of this? Because I'm hearing that the girl may not have a legitimate case.



and I sincerly apologize in advance

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- OP: "Jameis Winston's accuser is going public as part of a documentary."
- Everyone: "My daughter is going to be locked in our basement for life."
- "We just need to lock up anyone ever accused of rape."
- "No we shouldn't, that's stupid."
- three pages of "guilty until proven innocent" or "innocent until proven guilty" for anyone accused of rape
- Ohio State fan(s) somehow makes it for years on a Bama board with nary a conflict even in the midst of a game between the two teams with a month of build up, but this one sent them over the edge
- "Why is this still on the Football board?"
Which leads up to here, when you are asking us to actually talk about Winston and Kinsman. IMO, FSU and TPD are the bigger stories.

I don't get how this went so far off the Winston case. People are talking about being in the wrong place, people are talking about false allegations, and those things seem pretty far from the details we know about this case.

The woman was in a public bar which while perhaps not ideal was far from a dark alley at night. From what I can tell all aspects of her story make sense and had credibility, she had no incentive to fabricate this (she didn't even know who Winston was, she didn't even know his name), and she had proof that she'd been abused. The physical evidence served to substantiate what she said. Why must this turn into something about completely different hypothetical scenarios?

KrAzY3 said:

I don't get how this went so far off the Winston case. People are talking about being in the wrong place, people are talking about false allegations, and those things seem pretty far from the details we know about this case.

The woman was in a public bar which while perhaps not ideal was far from a dark alley at night. From what I can tell all aspects of her story make sense and had credibility, she had no incentive to fabricate this, and she had proof that she'd been abused. The physical evidence served to substantiate what she said. Why must this turn into something about completely different hypothetical scenarios?

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Who would have thought that a post about Winston's case would turn into an argument... I mean, if there's anything all of us can agree on, surely it's Winston being a scumbag, right?

GreatDanish said:

- OP: "Jameis Winston's accuser is going public as part of a documentary."
- Everyone: "My daughter is going to be locked in our basement for life."
- "We just need to lock up anyone ever accused of rape."
- "No we shouldn't, that's stupid."
- three pages of "guilty until proven innocent" or "innocent until proven guilty" for anyone accused of rape
- Ohio State fan(s) somehow makes it for years on a Bama board with nary a conflict even in the midst of a game between the two teams with a month of build up, but this one sent them over the edge
- "Why is this still on the Football board?"
Which leads up to here, when you are asking us to actually talk about Winston and Kinsman. IMO, FSU and TPD are the bigger stories.

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Good summary.

One other bullet is "If you think that following some simple precautions can decrease the risk of being raped, then you are the problem because you are blaming the victim, protecting the predators, and personally responsible for rape itself."