No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning.

92tide

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For the record Ken Ham is a nut job. Not a big fan of his whatsoever.

I've watched A LOT of debates in which Bill Nye and Ken Ham have been apart of. Neither has ever even hinted that they could be wrong. If so I missed it. I watched Nye write out a formula to "prove" he was right that had assumed constants with values assigned to them that had about as much credibility as me drawing numbers out of a hat. If he wants my respect (which he couldn't care less if died tomorrow) he would present his evidence and say "this is what I believe and why" without prancing it around like there's no way it could be wrong. Both Ham and Nye do this. It's arrogance and thinking very highly of oneself at its best.
have they had more than one debate? the only one i can find is the one in feb. 2014

and generally speaking, "assumed" constants are not pulled out of thin air.
 

92tide

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it's a classic in my line of work.

it would be funnier if I hadn't experienced it so often

it reminded me of so many of my meetings on "cross-disciplinary" projects when i was at tech. i was able to have some fun with it when i gave a de-briefing on all of my ongoing research right before i left. i actually got to say to a tenured assistant professor (who i could not stand by the way), in front of other researchers "you have one more week of my time before you take over this project, do you want to spend it parsing definitions, or do you spend it with me explaining my last two years of work so that you know what is going on?" were i not leaving, it would have been a severely clm.
 

Bamabuzzard

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have they had more than one debate? the only one i can find is the one in feb. 2014

and generally speaking, "assumed" constants are not pulled out of thin air.
They may (as do others) participate in a "debate circuit" of some sorts. I know Christopher Hitchens and some other guy (can't think of his name) would go from college to college or church to church debating. I'm not sure if Nye and Ham are apart of this or not. But I know they both participate in debates on a frequent basis.
 

92tide

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They may (as do others) participate in a "debate circuit" of some sorts. I know Christopher Hitchens and some other guy (can't think of his name) would go from college to college or church to church debating. I'm not sure if Nye and Ham are apart of this or not. But I know they both participate in debates on a frequent basis.
thx, i didn't know if it was like the leary/liddy thing (debate series) or not.
 

mittman

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it's a classic in my line of work.

it would be funnier if I hadn't experienced it so often
In my line of work (computer systems analyst), I get my fair share too.

In a former job I spent a great deal of time capturing data and producing results. Generally these were large data sets that needed to be analyzed from tests of military systems. I understand setting up tests to prove a hypothesis, replication, and unexpected factors better than the average guy. I have also experienced my fair share of people trying to draw conclusions where there are none to get a system to pass muster or fail.

Science interests me a great deal. I enjoy reading the journals and finding out (at least as much as I can understand) what the current beliefs are, applications we can use them for. However, it is getting harder to actually have a discussion when my beliefs automatically disqualify me from serious discussion.

Since it is obviously going there anyway, Explaining my position on God is like the old mice in the piano parable. Like the inquisitive mouse, we can sometimes figure out how some things work (the beautiful sound is just coming from string vibrations). We can also identify causes and effects (the vibrations were caused by hammers hitting the strings) and miss the fact that someone is playing the piano. Values that have been in history deemed constant are continually found not to be so constant. I believe it is obvious that something is at work besides random occurrences that statistically were bound to happen in a universe the size and scope of ours. That is a layer of my belief system, but not the only thing that makes me believe.

If you really want empirical evidence (by means of observation and experimentation) and are willing to actually run the tests, there are several specific tests and results one should expect given in scripture. They have always proven true. In fact they have been more consistently replicable than anything the scientists I worked with ever produced.

So there is that.

Yes sometimes I feel like the girl in the video trying to figure out why three lines can't all be perpendicular with each other when delving into explaining the physics of what they are finding. I have also been on the other side trying to explain to someone that didn't care why something would not work. They wanted it to work so badly that they wouldn't listen. I have also been in the position that someone showed me a method I was unaware of proving I was wrong to think it couldn't be done.

But really, the science behind the article and their findings does interest me, and I didn't intend this to get to a "see they were wrong again nyah-na-na-na-na" thing.
 
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cbi1972

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Since it is obviously going there anyway, Explaining my position on God is like the old mice in the piano parable. Like the inquisitive mouse, we can sometimes figure out how some things work (the beautiful sound is just coming from string vibrations). We can also identify causes and effects (the vibrations were caused by hammers hitting the strings) and miss the fact that someone is playing the piano. Values that have been have in history deemed constant are continually found not to be so constant. I believe it is obvious that something is at work besides random occurrences that statistically were bound to happen in a universe the size and scope of ours. That is layer of my belief system, but not the only thing that makes me believe.
I would still hope for the inquisitive mouse to desire a testable hypothesis with the potential to rule out the possibility of a piano that plays itself :)
 

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