Sidebar

Link: Article in The Atlantic in explanation of ISIS...

bamacon

bamacon

Hall of Fame
Apr 11, 2008
17,180
4,357
187
College Football's Mecca, Tuscaloosa
TIDE-HSV said:
I'm confused. ISIS pure Sunni. In fact, first on their hit list are the Shia, whom they regard as apostates...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I misspoke there. I was thinking of the Salafism movement with the Sunni branch. I had always known of the Shia desire to bring about the end of days but haven't heard it stressed near as much in Sunni circles. This article does a real good job of explaining the tactical separation that has formed between ISIS and al-Qaeda.
 
M

mittman

All-American
Jun 19, 2009
3,942
0
0
TIDE-HSV said:
I once brought up the ethnicity and Semiticism of the Arabs with my German next door neighbor. So far as the NAZIs were concerned, they were Aryan. I pointed out how absurd this was. She just said I didn't understand, that it was a political concept, which allowed the Japanese also to be "Aryan"...
Click to expand...
I once had a long conversation with an elderly German man. Can't remember his name. He got out just in time, came to the U.S. and ended up fighting in the Pacific theatre. Very interesting fellow. He once said something like "Aryan? (add the German sound for pshaw here) At the end of it all it just meant comrade." Whoever was their friend was Aryan.



Even with that, I think ISIS is even more selective in ideology, but probably still less selective in genealogy.
 
Last edited:
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,605
39,819
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
mittman said:
I once had a long conversation with an elderly German man. Can't remember his name. He got out just in time, came to the U.S. and ended up fighting in the Pacific theatre. Very interesting fellow. He once said something like "Aryan? (add the German sound for pshaw here) At the end of it all it just meant comrade." Whoever was their friend was Aryan.



Even with that, I think ISIS is even more selective in ideology, but probably still less selective in genealogy.
Click to expand...
It's an interesting term, in that it does really have a ethnic/DNA definition. Despite some blurring, the country naming itself after the concept - The Iranian population (Land of the Aryans) does have real basic DNA differences from the surrounding Arabs (and Jews)...
 
bamacon

bamacon

Hall of Fame
Apr 11, 2008
17,180
4,357
187
College Football's Mecca, Tuscaloosa
Tidewater said:
Three nabbed in NY for trying to get to ISIS.
Again, I'm not sure we should not just issue a statement directing American citizens not to go help ISIS, and they focus efforts on just killing them when they get there.
If they want to go to Syria, I'm just not sure that's a bad thing.
Click to expand...
I'd take them half way and let the off over the Atlantic, but that's just me.
 
Tidewater

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,460
13,289
287
Hooterville, Vir.
bamacon said:
I'd take them half way and let the off over the Atlantic, but that's just me.
Click to expand...
Heh. The French did a bit of this in Algeria in the late 1950s/early 1960s. They realized that by sunrise, an insurgent that they had captured no longer had useful intelligence, so they would put them into a plane, fly over the Med and give them a shove.
Not that I would condone that.
 
GrayTide

GrayTide

Hall of Fame
Nov 15, 2005
18,825
6,304
187
Greenbow, Alabama
Tidewater said:
Heh. The French did a bit of this in Algeria in the late 1950s/early 1960s. They realized that by sunrise, an insurgent that they had captured no longer had useful intelligence, so they would put them into a plane, fly over the Med and give them a shove.
Not that I would condone that.
Click to expand...
Kind of like questioning the Viet Cong.
 
twofbyc

twofbyc

Hall of Fame
Oct 14, 2009
12,222
3,371
187
If/when the decision is made to accept the collateral damage that will follow and the loss of American lives (by the American people; I don't think any President we've had in the last 40 years would make that decision without the overwhelming support of the American people), ISIS/ISIL will be (could be) destroyed, but not before then. I'd be curious as to how many people would be willing to accept it now; I'm sure a lot. But for the heat the US would have to bear, it would have to be in the 70-80% range (or higher), IMO.
Time's a wastin', as the say, and more Americans (and others) will be butchered before this happens (if it ever does).
 
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,605
39,819
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
twofbyc said:
If/when the decision is made to accept the collateral damage that will follow and the loss of American lives (by the American people; I don't think any President we've had in the last 40 years would make that decision without the overwhelming support of the American people), ISIS/ISIL will be (could be) destroyed, but not before then. I'd be curious as to how many people would be willing to accept it now; I'm sure a lot. But for the heat the US would have to bear, it would have to be in the 70-80% range (or higher), IMO.
Time's a wastin', as the say, and more Americans (and others) will be butchered before this happens (if it ever does).
Click to expand...
I can't tell exactly what you're referencing, but it seems to be a massive invasion on the ground. Yes, they can be wiped out and another group will fill in to take their place, unless the US maintains a huge occupation force on the ground. That is one thing the American people will not tolerate and they've shown it over and over in the past...
 
Tidewater

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,460
13,289
287
Hooterville, Vir.
I just watched a Sky News story about IS.
European muslims are sneaking into Syria using forged Syrian passports (what a surprise). You can buy one in Turkey for $1000.
One Syrian joker the Brit gringo journalist spoke to was an ISIS defector. He had witnessed ISIS beheading a muslim for not being orthodox enough. That was it. This Syrian guy quit. He said, "The ones they are torturing are the muslims. I have no problem with them torturing the unbelievers, but they are torturing and killing muslims." The defector also displayed signed of a rift between Syrians and others. "The Europeans get all the best weapons. They get help with marriage, with cars, everything. The Syrians in ISIS get nothing."
When asked if he had any advice for muslims thinking of emigrating to the caliphate, he said, "Stay where you are. Stay home. If you want to help the muslims in Syria, help them by praying for them."
 
Tidewater

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,460
13,289
287
Hooterville, Vir.
bamacon said:
I'd take them half way and let the off over the Atlantic, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

Here is why you don't kill your captive insurgents.
It is not squeamish sentimentalism. You turn some of them, and get them back out in the boonies killing their former colleagues.
The Brits did it in Kenya against the Mao-Mao. Used captured, vetted and turned Mao-Mao to go out and kill the Mao-Mao.
The French were brilliant at this in Algeria. they would turn some of their captives. Vet them. Go and get their families to protect them (and as insurance), then send the former guerrillas back into the bled to hunt FLN insurgents. They would receive help from locals, and promptly turn the helpers in to French authorities (e.g. "Hey, Abdul Kader in Bumville gave us food, ammo and told us French patrols were over the next ridge and that we should watch out.") The French would pay Abdul Kader a visit and tell him, "We know you have been helping the FLN with food, ammo and intel. If we catch you doing it again, we're going to kill you and your entire family. Capice?" Pretty soon, nobody would help the real FLN because they were not sure if they were real or fake FLN. The FLN started brutal sweeps of FLN units, thinking some of their members were feeding intel to the French. Thousands of loyal FLN soldiers were killed by the FLN out of blind suspicion.
See Alistair Horne, Savage War of Peace, p. 321-336.
“In the maquis was also operating, with extraordinary fearlessness, Captain Leger's section of his bleus. Their double agent activities, as usual, were so successful that villagers refused any longer to give food supplies to the A. L. N., up not knowing whether they were true mujaheddine or Leger’s turncoats. Conditions in the field became terrible, with man dying as often from hunger as for me enemy bullets. “One could no longer move,” stated one of Mohand ou El-Hadj's lieutenants. “One no longer ate. I was so weak that I could no longer even managed to carry my sub-machine gun. The establishment of military posts, the multiplying of self-defense communities and intelligence agency was making life impossible, and even survival itself.... It was only by executing traitors one after the other that we did manage to survive. But one was never able to regain the initiative.”
Click to expand...
A lot of those "traitors" were really loyal ALN soldiers, that someone merely suspected of being a turncoat. The ALN was killing itself in Algeria in 1958, and was glad it was doing it. That is brilliant.
 
Last edited:
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,605
39,819
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Tidewater said:

Here is why you don't kill your captive insurgents.
It is not squeamish sentimentalism. You turn some of them, and get them back out in the boonies killing their former colleagues.
The Brits did it in Kenya against the Mao-Mao. Used captured, vetted and turned Mao-Mao to go out and kill the Mao-Mao.
The French were brilliant at this in Algeria. they would turn some of their captives. Vet them. Go and get their families to protect them (and as insurance), then send the former guerrillas back into the bled to hunt FLN insurgents. They would receive help from locals, and promptly turn the helpers in to French authorities (e.g. "Hey, Abdul Kader in Bumville gave us food, ammo and told us French patrols were over the next ridge and that we should watch out.") The French would pay Abdul Kader a visit and tell him, "We know you have been helping the FLN with food, ammo and intel. If we catch you doing it again, we're going to kill you and your entire family. Capice?" Pretty soon, nobody would help the real FLN because they were not sure if they were real or fake FLN. The FLN started brutal sweeps of FLN units, thinking some of their members were feeding intel to the French. Thousands of loyal FLN soldiers were killed by the FLN out of blind suspicion.
See Alistair Horne, Savage War of Peace, p. 321-336.

A lot of those "traitors" were really loyal ALN soldiers, that someone merely suspected of being a turncoat. The ALN was killing itself in Algeria in 1958, and was glad it was doing it. That is brilliant.
Click to expand...
I think these guys kill themselves off, if we support the Kurds and harass their logistics. The last thing I want to see is 50K American boots on the ground, fulfilling their prophecies for them. I get the feeling that we have some posters participating who haven't read even a part of the original article...
 
TIDE-HSV

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,605
39,819
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Tidewater said:
ISIS beheading specialist identified by name. A middle class Brit from west of London.
It would seem that retaliation, while reprehensible, might seem to be in order here.
Maybe we could nab his family and hold them as a guarantee for good behavior. Wonder how ISIS would react to that?
Click to expand...
A move like that might work with Al Qaeda. I don't think it would work, with ISIS, because, according to their theology, they would all then die as favored martyrs. I honestly don't think their like has been seen since the first couple of centuries of Islamic expansion...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a> <br /> <!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \--> <p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.

Top Bottom