Illegal man downfield rule getting some resistance from some coaches.

CB4

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And this has to be one of the dumbest statements in the entire article by one Hugh Freeze:

"Why make such a radical change?" he asked. "It's like basketball. If a three-second rule is missed five or six times, you don't go changing the rule to one second in the lane. You just enforce it better. Every one of these plays that people are talking about last year should have been flags. We all agree on that. Throw the flag and we're not even having this discussion."

Wrong...dummy. Rules have been changed for years and across sports because of difficulty in interpretation or enforcement. Simply look at the arc rule and changes in clarifying the block/charge call in basketball recently. Those changes happened because there was so much controversy over interpretation of the rule. And it has made for a cleaner game. Not perfect, but cleaner.

This is NO different. It is simple logic to change to the NFL standard of one yard. It is much easier for officials to make a definitive call in a one (or more like two) yard area than in an area three (or more like five) yards.

These guys want to talk about defensive coaches whining? Here is the deal IMO. The advantage is gained in many cases by the offenses by operating in the "gray area" concerning rules. They all talk about getting "match up advantages" against defenses, but it is much about gaining those advantages in rule interpretation and enforcement. I want see 22 players determine the outcome of a game based on how successful they can be. I don't want it determined by watching 7 others in striped shirts being placed in positions to fail.
 

CrimsonForce

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Dec 20, 2012
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Why not? They do it when they call targeting.
Targeting is the only penalty that is reviewable. That's because they are reviewing whether or not a player being ejected stands. I am not in favor of starting to review penalties. They have slowed down the game enough already..
 

BamaFanInHamilton

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Feb 11, 2004
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Since the HUNH coaches are whining about this rule change, why not just keep the rule as is, but add another official to be stationed three yards ahead of the LOS and have him watch for linemen that are down field illegally?
 

CrimsonForce

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Not necessarily. They have reversed the targeting call after it was reviewed before
Yes because they are deciding if a player should be ejected or not. They are not going to stop the game and review a holding call, or PI, or illegal lineman down field. It's just not gonna happen. Those are all judgement calls. It would be like baseball umpires reviewing balls and strikes..
 

TideMan09

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This would be the most logical way to satisfy everyone..Don't change any of the rules, but, add any extra ref to enforce the existing rules & that would help cut down the cheating ways the HUNH offenses lives off of..They admit they break the rules & do it by choice cause they know the refs minds are going 90 to nothing just trying to spot the tha ball fast enough to satisfy the HUNH HC's & that in turn allows the refs to miss many penalties they would call against a conventional type offense like Bama or Arkansas..The NCAA has more than enough money to add as many refs needed on the football field to ensure these HUNH offenses aren't allowed to get away with murder by missing as many penalties refs have missed the last few years trying to keep up with the pace of these HUNH offenses..

Personally..I wish the NCAA would follow the NFL's lead at how the NFL refs controls the pace of the games & still allows Chip Kelley's offense to still play pretty fast, but, the refs controls the pace of the game not the HUNH offenses..If they would adopt how the NFL does it..There wouldn't be any complaints from anyone & the field of play would be a lot more level..That's just me though..
Since the HUNH coaches are whining about this rule change, why not just keep the rule as is, but add another official to be stationed three yards ahead of the LOS and have him watch for linemen that are down field illegally?
 

bama579

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This, from Dabo Swinney, makes sense to me: "Keep the current rule and enforce it," Swinney said. "If they call the penalty, it would stop the blatant violators."

The rule to control this crap already exists. Enforce it.
 

KrAzY3

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This, from Dabo Swinney, makes sense to me: "Keep the current rule and enforce it," Swinney said. "If they call the penalty, it would stop the blatant violators."

The rule to control this crap already exists. Enforce it.
The absurdity is allowing down-field blocking at all. Dabo is just clinging to anything that keeps up their ability to break the rules. By saying you can't block down-field on a passing play, and making that the rule, you make it pretty clear what isn't allowed. The NFL does it and it works just fine, if the HUNH is going to keep benefiting from an unintended consequence of the clock rules change, there needs to be tweaks to other rules to try and undo some of the issues this magnified.
 

scrodz

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The extra official would certainly help, since the umpire really can't watch for both holding and illegal men downfield at the same time. Of course, adding the 2nd umpire might lead to a sudden rash of holding calls once the 1st umpire has more time to watch.
 

USCBAMA

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This, from Dabo Swinney, makes sense to me: "Keep the current rule and enforce it," Swinney said. "If they call the penalty, it would stop the blatant violators."

The rule to control this crap already exists. Enforce it.
Do you believe this comment to be sincere coming from one of the premier blatant violators of this rule in college football?

I say they call these guy's bluffs. Have refs strictly enforce the rule AND make it a reviewable play, meaning a TD or other good play can be overturned if a lineman downfield blocking. If these guys mean what they say they would whole-heartedly support this...don't hold your breath.
 

bama579

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Do you believe this comment to be sincere coming from one of the premier blatant violators of this rule in college football?

I say they call these guy's bluffs. Have refs strictly enforce the rule AND make it a reviewable play, meaning a TD or other good play can be overturned if a lineman downfield blocking. If these guys mean what they say they would whole-heartedly support this...don't hold your breath.
Didn't that I believe it to be sincere. Said that it makes sense to me, and that enforcement of existing rule(s) would control the violations.
 

KrAzY3

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Didn't that I believe it to be sincere. Said that it makes sense to me, and that enforcement of existing rule(s) would control the violations.
It doesn't make sense when you consider the entire point of the HUNH offense is to take advantage of people being out of position, unable to get in place, unable to substitute, etc... you remove those elements, then HUNH as we know it (not merely up tempo) is a joke, a sloppy, undisciplined, redundant, joke. But, if you don't let the defense substitute, if you don't let the defense get set, if you don't let the refs get in position, then you run a play designed to fool everyone, and get away with various rules violations... well then you create mistakes.

The whole, oh well the refs need to just get the call right, when the entire play is designed to be implemented in such a way that no one knows what is going on, that no one but the offense is set, well that can't be fixed by just saying the refs need to throw the flag. Sure, they do, but if the refs also take their sweet time getting in place Dabo will go insane and rant and rave. He doesn't want them doing their job properly, the whole point is to avoid that.

So, we're now at the point of having people suggest another ref to watch the LOS, to go along with the other additional ref to help set the ball fast while other refs get in position, and all this nonsense, instead of just fixing the unintended consequence of a clock change rule implemented a few years ago. The sub-par coaches that have staked their career on the equality that chaos brings will do anything to protect that though.
 
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CrimsonNagus

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I'm sorry but the current rule sucks anyway, allowing lineman to block 3 yards down field (which really means 4 or 5 yards at game speed) is dumb and the rule should have never been changed years ago to begin with. IMO, the rule should be just like the NFL's rule, if it's good enough for the pros it should be good enough for college players as well. Of course, I think there are a number of rules that need to be changed to match the NFL. PI being one of them, I'm tired of defenders tackling players when they are beat because the 15 yard penalty is better then a big play, changing it to the NFL rule would stop that junk.

Anyway, there are also rules on the books to control the pace of the game but the refs refuse to enforce them. Point is, sometimes when rules are not being enforced correctly, they need to be changed to make enforcement easier. Either way these same coaches are always going to whine. If the rules are changed, they'll whine; if the refs start enforcing the rules, they'll whine. Basically these types of coaches are just chronic whiners.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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I'm sorry but the current rule sucks anyway, allowing lineman to block 3 yards down field (which really means 4 or 5 yards at game speed) is dumb and the rule should have never been changed years ago to begin with. IMO, the rule should be just like the NFL's rule, if it's good enough for the pros it should be good enough for college players as well. Of course, I think there are a number of rules that need to be changed to match the NFL. PI being one of them, I'm tired of defenders tackling players when they are beat because the 15 yard penalty is better then a big play, changing it to the NFL rule would stop that junk.

Anyway, there are also rules on the books to control the pace of the game but the refs refuse to enforce them. Point is, sometimes when rules are not being enforced correctly, they need to be changed to make enforcement easier. Either way these same coaches are always going to whine. If the rules are changed, they'll whine; if the refs start enforcing the rules, they'll whine. Basically these types of coaches are just chronic whiners.
This is basically what I've thought all along. When it's obvious that a rule is impossible of being enforced, it's just plain silly to keep on repeating that the answer is more enforcement of the unenforceable. Even a blind official can judge about how far a yard is. It's basically one step. If you gathered up about a dozen NCAA officials, I'd guess maybe two could accurately pace off how far three yards would be. And they've proven it, in many games. I agree also on the PI rule...
 

USCBAMA

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1. Change the rule from 3-yards downfield to Less than 3-yards down field.
2. Make the rule with above change a point of emphasis for refs this season.
3. Make this a reviewable play, even if a flag not thrown it can be reviewed for illegal lineman downfield.

HUNH guys would have no room to complain since rule is basically they same, only more tightly enforced...but of course we know they would whine.
 

alwayshavebeen

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Sep 22, 2013
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1. Change the rule from 3-yards downfield to Less than 3-yards down field.
2. Make the rule with above change a point of emphasis for refs this season.
3. Make this a reviewable play, even if a flag not thrown it can be reviewed for illegal lineman downfield.

HUNH guys would have no room to complain since rule is basically they same, only more tightly enforced...but of course we know they would whine.
IMO we don't need more reviewable plays especially as relates to this. It is a judgment call just like a natural zone infraction. Set it at 1yd and tell the officials to call it, and as I have repeatedly said if they go 3yds surely to goodness it will be called.
 

Bama Czar

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1. Change the rule from 3-yards downfield to Less than 3-yards down field.
2. Make the rule with above change a point of emphasis for refs this season.
3. Make this a reviewable play, even if a flag not thrown it can be reviewed for illegal lineman downfield.

HUNH guys would have no room to complain since rule is basically they same, only more tightly enforced...but of course we know they would whine.
I say, do away with the interpretive 3 yards down field rule & just stick with the line of scrimmage (unless the pass is completed behind the LOS). Seems that works fine for the NFL teams & officials......pretty straight-forward. I really don't see how this is too difficult...?
 

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