Link: Big Bang, Deflated? Universe May Have Had No Beginning

PacadermaTideUs

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If we find evidence that life is capable of adapting on other exoplanets, will theologians start adapting their philosophy accordingly?
You seem to be under the impression that extraterrestrial life and a belief in god are mutually exclusive. According to Harris Interactive, 74% of Americans believe in god. According to the University of Connecticut's Center for Survey and Research Analysis, 60% of Americans believe in extraterrestrial life. So if these estimates are accurate, at a bare minimum (and possibly much more), 34% of all Americans believe in both god and extraterrestrial life, amounting to at least 46% of American "theologians" also believing in the existence of alien life.
 
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CullmanTide

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You seem to be under the impression that extraterrestrial life and a belief in god are mutually exclusive. According to Harris Interactive, 74% of Americans believe in god. According to the University of Connecticut's Center for Survey and Research Analysis, 60% of Americans believe in extraterrestrial life. So if these estimates are accurate, at a bare minimum (and possibly much more), 34% of all Americans believe in both god and extraterrestrial life, amounting to at least 57% of American "theologians" also believing in the existence of alien life.
It would be extremely naive considering the vastness of the universe to think life is exclusive to Earth whether one believes in God or not. Who are we to put limits on our creator? No matter how intelligent or important we sometimes want to believe we are, we know little and should realize how insignificant we really are.
 

dWarriors88

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What created the star that exploded?
Obviously I'm not qualified to give an appropriate answer, but it's my understanding that there are three prevailing schools of thought for this question.

The first, All matter originated from a singularity which expanded (Big Bang) due to processes beyond my capabilities of understanding utilizing advanced quantum mechanics and advanced astrophysics, which lead to an ever accelerating and expanding universe. The Higgs boson is what is believed to of given photons and matter it's initial mass, which collected into carbon, and produced unique conditions for atoms to freeze, collide, cook, stew, dilute and smash back together to create the different elements. Over time these elements settle together and bond. After a loooong time of that our observable universe is the way it is. Soo the star came from packets of energy which turned into matter via subatomic physics over an inconceivable amount of time.

The next idea is this new theory we are discussing. There has never been a beginning just as there will be no end. The past is dependent on the future, and vice versa. The content of the subject is very metaphysical, and strattles the lines of reason and fiction.

And of course, the most prevalent theory, in my opinion, creation.

You seem to be under the impression that extraterrestrial life and a belief in god are mutually exclusive. According to Harris Interactive, 74% of Americans believe in god. According to the University of Connecticut's Center for Survey and Research Analysis, 60% of Americans believe in extraterrestrial life. So if these estimates are accurate, at a bare minimum (and possibly much more), 34% of all Americans believe in both god and extraterrestrial life, amounting to at least 57% of American "theologians" also believing in the existence of alien life.
which leads me into this post, I found this poll extremely interesting. However I'm still inclined to reason that a devout religious man will be more willing to deny ET (any kind of life, intelligent or non) than accept it. Simply because evolution is so highly disregarded by the religous community, it would be interesting to me to see a poll where the questions asked were: "do you believe in God", and "do you evolution played a roll in our origins". Because just as ET and a belief in God are not exactly mutual, neither should evolution and a belief in God. I've long held this idea that the both evolution and creation could tie together in some way. Is that crazy?

The discovery of life elsewhere than earth would raise into question, for myself, the wording of many scriptures, I.E most scriptures only refer to those among the earth (duh). Why leave that little detail about life on other solar bodies as earth being of his creation. Perhaps intelligent life exists somewhere, in some time out there. Are they forbidden from the Lord's eternal saving grace? I would think discovery of life outside of earth' confines would throw a huge monkey wrench into the picture the bible paints.

I don't want to come off as an atheist or even an agnostic, technically I'm an episcopalian, not exactly the best practitioner at times though. I believe religion played an incredible role as to our devolpment of social and moral constructs. Like the Ten Commandments for example, those are laws that barbarians would not live by, for humanity to move forward some sort of moral guidance had to come about. Religion also helps ease the human brain's insatiable appetite for answers. It's hard to look up in the sky and not simply ask yourself how and why. So a simple answer that seemed to solve all those questions- is God. And don't you doubt God. Or else. Or else what? Exactly. I also believe religion continues to play a grand role in the way society behaves. I Just wish men would stop giving it such a terrible wrap, and stop putting their personal goals and agendas in the way of giving guidance, console and hope for those who seek it. Also, I wish people would stop forcing their personal beliefs onto others. To each their own, and one should respect another's choice to/not believe in who/what they want.
 

TideMan09

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Yup..When you factor in there's literally more stars & planets in the Universe, than there's grains of sand on all the beaches on the Earth, it's foolish & conceded, to think we're the only intelligent life in the Universe, heck, there's prolly a vast number of intelligent life just in the "Milky Way Galaxy" alone..Heck..There may be a form of life in our solar system on one of the many moons of Jupiter & Saturn, now it may not be of a life form, that has a technology to say "Hey Ya Human Idiots" we're right here with y'all..I do think there's a primitive life form somewhere in our Solar System & there's prolly as many life forms in the Universe that's as wide a variety as the many different animal species here on Earth..
It would be extremely naive considering the vastness of the universe to think life is exclusive to Earth whether one believes in God or not. Who are we to put limits on our creator? No matter how intelligent or important we sometimes want to believe we are, we know little and should realize how insignificant we really are.
 

Bama Reb

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There's yet another factor that I haven't seen mentioned here, and that's time. When discussing whether the universe had a beginning, we have to ask the same of time. When or how did the universe begin? When did time begin?
Now we're getting to the real heart of the matter. The space/time continuum!
 

TIDE-HSV

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which leads me into this post, I found this poll extremely interesting. However I'm still inclined to reason that a devout religious man will be more willing to deny ET (any kind of life, intelligent or non) than accept it. Simply because evolution is so highly disregarded by the religous community, it would be interesting to me to see a poll where the questions asked were: "do you believe in God", and "do you evolution played a roll in our origins". Because just as ET and a belief in God are not exactly mutual, neither should evolution and a belief in God. I've long held this idea that the both evolution and creation could tie together in some way. Is that crazy?
dd, the Catholic Church has proclaimed that evolution is compatible with Christianity, as has my denomination (UMC) and yours (Anglican). Worldwide, that's a majority, going away. It's really a fairly small percentage, mostly evangelicals and mostly concentrated in the South, who reject any compatibility...
 

NationalTitles18

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There's yet another factor that I haven't seen mentioned here, and that's time. When discussing whether the universe had a beginning, we have to ask the same of time. When or how did the universe begin? When did time begin?
Now we're getting to the real heart of the matter. The space/time continuum!
Time as we know it breaks down at the singularity. It simply does not exist as we know it.
 

TIDE-HSV

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Time as we know it breaks down at the singularity. It simply does not exist as we know it.
Time, as most people think they know it and experience it really doesn't exist at any level. It's as illusory as reality and solidity are. Regardless, western thinking and philosophy are firmly wedded to the linear time concept...
 

dWarriors88

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dd, the Catholic Church has proclaimed that evolution is compatible with Christianity, as has my denomination (UMC) and yours (Anglican). Worldwide, that's a majority, going away. It's really a fairly small percentage, mostly evangelicals and mostly concentrated in the South, who reject any compatibility...
Wow that's fascinating and I had not heard that before! I'm glad you mentioned that. I'm not going to lie, it really hurts and is almost comical to watch someone who vehemently disagrees with evolution, I.E Ken Hamm debate Bill Nye.
 

cbi1972

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You seem to be under the impression that extraterrestrial life and a belief in god are mutually exclusive. According to Harris Interactive, 74% of Americans believe in god. According to the University of Connecticut's Center for Survey and Research Analysis, 60% of Americans believe in extraterrestrial life. So if these estimates are accurate, at a bare minimum (and possibly much more), 34% of all Americans believe in both god and extraterrestrial life, amounting to at least 46% of American "theologians" also believing in the existence of alien life.
The Electric Monk
High on a rocky promontory sat an Electric Monk on a bored horse. From under its rough woven cowl the Monk gazed unblinkingly down into another valley, with which it was having a problem.

The day was hot, the sun stood in an empty hazy sky and beat down upon the gray rocks and the scrubby, parched grass. Nothing moved, not even the Monk. The horse's tail moved a little, swishing slightly to try and move a little air, but that was all. Otherwise, nothing moved.

The Electric Monk was a labour-saving device, like a dishwasher or a video recorder. Dishwashers washed tedious dishes for you, thus saving you the bother of washing them yourself, video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electric Monks believed things for you, thus saving you what was becoming an increasingly onerous task, that of believing all the things the world expected you to believe.

Unfortunately this Electric Monk had developed a fault, and had started to believe all kinds of things, more or less at random. It was even beginning to believe things they'd have difficulty believing in Salt Lake City. It had never heard of Salt Lake City, of course. Nor had it ever heard of a quingigillion, which was roughly the number of miles between this valley and the Great Salt Lake of Utah.

The problem with the valley was this. The Monk currently believed that the valley and everything in the valley and around it, including the Monk itself and the Monk's horse, was a uniform shade of pale pink. This made for a certain difficulty in distinguishing any one thing from any other thing, and therefore made doing anything or going anywhere impossible, or at least difficult and dangerous. Hence the immobility of the Monk and the boredom of the horse, which had had to put up with a lot of silly things in its time but was secretly of the opinion that this was one of the silliest.

How long did the Monk believe these things?

Well, as far as the Monk was concerned, forever. The faith which moves mountains, or at least believes them against all the available evidence to be pink, was a solid and abiding faith, a great rock against which the world could hurl whatever it would, yet it would not be shaken. In practice, the horse knew, twenty-four hours was usually about its lot.
 

RedStar

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This thread makes me short of breath. I get that weird empty feeling in the pit of my stomach and my head starts spinning. I'm out.
 

bamahippie

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dd, the Catholic Church has proclaimed that evolution is compatible with Christianity, as has my denomination (UMC) and yours (Anglican). Worldwide, that's a majority, going away. It's really a fairly small percentage, mostly evangelicals and mostly concentrated in the South, who reject any compatibility...
That may be true, but that is church leadership speaking for the entire denominational community. That does not necessarily mean that all folks from Catholic, UMC and Anglican are on board. Just a thought. I would be interested in seeing non-skewed or non-biased poll results on what people really think, denominationally, on the matter.

Also, the scriptures differ as well. If we can't trust the scriptures, and the doctrine, then what do we have? Evolution? I'll go with what God says (He created). God creating, and we "happened" through evolution are NOT compatible. Darwin said as much.
 

TIDE-HSV

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That may be true, but that is church leadership speaking for the entire denominational community. That does not necessarily mean that all folks from Catholic, UMC and Anglican are on board. Just a thought. I would be interested in seeing non-skewed or non-biased poll results on what people really think, denominationally, on the matter.

Also, the scriptures differ as well. If we can't trust the scriptures, and the doctrine, then what do we have? Evolution? I'll go with what God says (He created). God creating, and we "happened" through evolution are NOT compatible. Darwin said as much.
Pope vs. Hippie. Should be entertaining... :D
 

Jon

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That may be true, but that is church leadership speaking for the entire denominational community. That does not necessarily mean that all folks from Catholic, UMC and Anglican are on board. Just a thought. I would be interested in seeing non-skewed or non-biased poll results on what people really think, denominationally, on the matter.

Also, the scriptures differ as well. If we can't trust the scriptures, and the doctrine, then what do we have? Evolution? I'll go with what God says (He created). God creating, and we "happened" through evolution are NOT compatible. Darwin said as much.
well with Catholicism the Pope is infallible, free from possible error and all Catholics are expected to accept and agree. It's one of the many tenants of that faith that I could never accept while being raised in it. Especially when you learn some of the really disgusting things a few of these guys did...

So yeah, Catholics believe in Evolution and in science in general. My take is that they have been burned too many times in the past and have decided to fold their hand and play the "works in mysterious ways" card. To that end though they have an absolutely world class observatory and astronomy program and the jesuits perform some great science, albeit with a really large blind spot.

I find it really funny actually, I have some really hard core conservative and also super Catholic family members. Watching their mental gymnastics supporting guys like Mike Huckabee who is completely anti-science makes me chuckle and their entire party keeps getting more anti-science. A recent poll showed a staggering 49% (=/-5.5%) not believing in Evolution.
 

Go Bama

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well with Catholicism the Pope is infallible, free from possible error and all Catholics are expected to accept and agree. It's one of the many tenants of that faith that I could never accept while being raised in it. Especially when you learn some of the really disgusting things a few of these guys did...

So yeah, Catholics believe in Evolution and in science in general. My take is that they have been burned too many times in the past and have decided to fold their hand and play the "works in mysterious ways" card. To that end though they have an absolutely world class observatory and astronomy program and the jesuits perform some great science, albeit with a really large blind spot.

I find it really funny actually, I have some really hard core conservative and also super Catholic family members. Watching their mental gymnastics supporting guys like Mike Huckabee who is completely anti-science makes me chuckle and their entire party keeps getting more anti-science. A recent poll showed a staggering 49% (=/-5.5%) not believing in Evolution.
The Pope is infallible in matters of the Church only. He is and man and therefore a sinner, but in matters of the Church he is guided by the Holy Spirit, thus infallible. I may be wrong, I'm Methodist, but I pay close attention to what the Pope says. In particular, I believe Pope Francis is a very good man.
 

92tide

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well with Catholicism the Pope is infallible, free from possible error and all Catholics are expected to accept and agree. It's one of the many tenants of that faith that I could never accept while being raised in it. Especially when you learn some of the really disgusting things a few of these guys did...

So yeah, Catholics believe in Evolution and in science in general. My take is that they have been burned too many times in the past and have decided to fold their hand and play the "works in mysterious ways" card. To that end though they have an absolutely world class observatory and astronomy program and the jesuits perform some great science, albeit with a really large blind spot.

I find it really funny actually, I have some really hard core conservative and also super Catholic family members. Watching their mental gymnastics supporting guys like Mike Huckabee who is completely anti-science makes me chuckle and their entire party keeps getting more anti-science. A recent poll showed a staggering 49% (=/-5.5%) not believing in Evolution.
what makes that even more funny, is that up until fairly recently, fundies (at least the ones i grew up with) considered catholocism to be on par with a satanic cult
 

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