Link: Big Bang, Deflated? Universe May Have Had No Beginning

TideMan09 · Mar 1, 2015

This is a topic that just fascinates me to no end & is a topic I doubt we humans will ever figure out before our specie meets our "End Of Times"..For example..If you believe God created us, what created God, God just didn't pop up all of a sudden..This is a topic I honestly don't think our human minds could comprehend even if the answer was given to us..Just is to complex for our minds to understand..JMHO

Here's The Link..CLICK ME

TIDE-HSV · Mar 1, 2015

TideMan09 said:
This is a topic that just fascinates me to no end & is a topic I doubt we humans will ever figure out before our specie meets our "End Of Times"..For example..If you believe God created us, what created God, God just didn't pop up all of a sudden..This is a topic I honestly don't think our human minds could comprehend even if the answer was given to us..Just is to complex for our minds to understand..JMHO

Here's The Link..CLICK ME

I never thought it did, just as I don't think you and I will have and end...

TideMan09 · Mar 1, 2015

I agree 100% with as always Earle..How we got here or what created us just boggles the mind thinking about it..I know this may sound crazy I know, but, we came upon this planet & was created somehow or by something..I remember watching a interview of Carl Sagan& he basically said that our specie was more less a "Science Experiment" of some other alien race & I kinda agree with that theory..

In a sense our "God" would be that specie alien race that put us on Earth..And the UFO sightings folks around the world witness all the time, would be those aliens, coming back checking up on how much we've advanced or how much more we've destroyed our "Mother Earth" & I have a feeling they will eventually take us out, cause we're not the friendliest of species & we are in the process of destroying this world slowly but surely..Plus..We're a species that would rather go to war, rather than end argument or disagreement by fighting, and that's not the best way to resolve disagreements between our own specie..And when we're a threat to leave this planet to colonize other parts of the Universe, that's when they will come back, and take us out before we leave this planet & threaten the rest of the Universe with our warring ways..

Here's an article where Stephen Hawkins states for our specie to survive itself from killing ourselves off, we have to leave Earth, and have another planet we can go to & live on..If humans doesn't destroy the Earth, the sun will eventually expand to the point, that will make our planet uninhabitable & if our race is to survive, we will have to find another Earth in the Universe & have the technology to get us there..Personally..Unless an Advanced Alien race helps us out, we will go away of the dinosaurs, and we will be just a blip in the grand scheme of the Universe..

Here's the Stephen Hawkins article..CLICK ME

TIDE-HSV said:
I never thought it did, just as I don't think you and I will have and end...

DzynKingRTR · Mar 1, 2015

TideMan09 said:
This is a topic that just fascinates me to no end & is a topic I doubt we humans will ever figure out before our specie meets our "End Of Times"..For example..If you believe God created us, what created God, God just didn't pop up all of a sudden..This is a topic I honestly don't think our human minds could comprehend even if the answer was given to us..Just is to complex for our minds to understand..JMHO

Here's The Link..CLICK ME

I love this topic as well because evolution and creationism both have the same flaw. There had to be a beginning.

Bamaro · Mar 1, 2015

DzynKingRTR said:
I love this topic as well because evolution and creationism both have the same flaw. There had to be a beginning.

If there was a beginning what was there before it began? And if your answer is "nothing" where did the stuff for the beginning come from?:conf2:
Dont ask me, I dont know. We have finite minds and these are infinite questions.

dWarriors88 · Mar 1, 2015

I seem to recall a theory that suggested each black hole creates a new seperate "universe", which could, in theory, explain a big "bang" because a black hole is created by an immensely powerful explosion of a star. also could explain the mass quandary of black holes and why they are so massive, also physicist can tie in dark matter into the theory to make it all smooth. As with any theory regarding the nature of our origins, it's got holes but it's really incredible when you consider all the galaxies in our universe center around a supermassive black hole..

And I personally hope that this idea of no beggining holds water for a long time, because intuitively, it makes sense. We've all been here before and we'll all be here again.

Jon · Mar 1, 2015

DzynKingRTR said:
I love this topic as well because evolution and creationism both have the same flaw. There had to be a beginning.

actually not true at all, Evolution says nothing about the beginning of life. It starts just after, the theory you are looking for is abiogenesis

Abiogenesis is the process by which a living organism arises naturally from non-living matter, as opposed to biogenesis, which is the creation of living organisms by other living organisms.

DzynKingRTR · Mar 1, 2015

Jon said:
actually not true at all, Evolution says nothing about the beginning of life. It starts just after, the theory you are looking for is abiogenesis

you completely missed my point.

Jon · Mar 1, 2015

TideMan09 said:
I agree 100% with as always Earle..How we got here or what created us just boggles the mind thinking about it..I know this may sound crazy I know, but, we came upon this planet & was created somehow or by something..I remember watching a interview of Carl Sagan& he basically said that our specie was more less a "Science Experiment" of some other alien race & I kinda agree with that theory..

In a sense our "God" would be that specie alien race that put us on Earth..And the UFO sightings folks around the world witness all the time, would be those aliens, coming back checking up on how much we've advanced or how much more we've destroyed our "Mother Earth" & I have a feeling they will eventually take us out, cause we're not the friendliest of species & we are in the process of destroying this world slowly but surely..Plus..We're a species that would rather go to war, rather than end argument or disagreement by fighting, and that's not the best way to resolve disagreements between our own specie..And when we're a threat to leave this planet to colonize other parts of the Universe, that's when they will come back, and take us out before we leave this planet & threaten the rest of the Universe with our warring ways..

Here's an article where Stephen Hawkins states for our specie to survive itself from killing ourselves off, we have to leave Earth, and have another planet we can go to & live on..If humans doesn't destroy the Earth, the sun will eventually expand to the point, that will make our planet uninhabitable & if our race is to survive, we will have to find another Earth in the Universe & have the technology to get us there..Personally..Unless an Advanced Alien race helps us out, we will go away of the dinosaurs, and we will be just a blip in the grand scheme of the Universe..

Here's the Stephen Hawkins article..CLICK ME

I recall the same video with Sagan, he talks about how it is possible that an alien life form started us as just one of many ideas as to how life first arose.

Personally I don't think we've been visited and I don't think Sagan did either, the distances in interstellar space are mind bendingly vast, but it is possible that a super advanced civilization has figured it out. Maybe we'll get there one day. And on that I agree with Hawkins, we better get to figuring out how to live somewhere else cause this planet is getting far too full and we are treating far too badly

Jon · Mar 1, 2015

DzynKingRTR said:
you completely missed my point.

no I got it

DzynKingRTR · Mar 1, 2015

Jon said:
no I got it

no you missed my point completely. the problem with evolution is it had to have a beginning. if we evolved from a single cell organism than what made the single cell organism and what made the thing that made the single cell organism and what made the thing that made the thing that made the single cell organism etc. as for creationism, well God made everything but what made God and what made the thing that made God etc. My whole point is everything has a beginning.

Jon · Mar 1, 2015

DzynKingRTR said:
no you missed my point completely. the problem with evolution is it had to have a beginning. if we evolved from a single cell organism than what made the single cell organism and what made the thing that made the single cell organism and what made the thing that made the thing that made the single cell organism etc. as for creationism, well God made everything but what made God and what made the thing that made God etc. My whole point is everything has a beginning.

I agree that everything must have a beginning, and if evolution was a theory about how life began I would also agree with you that it has this problem. The issue comes in exactly there, evolution is a theory of how life got this way after it began. So therefor, this cannot be a problem with evolution by default. To use you example, what made that first life form be it a single cell or something else is not in any way addressed by the theory of evolution so it cannot be a problem the theory has.

Does the the theory of heliocentrism have this problem as well? I mean something had to create the sun for us to go around, right?

PacadermaTideUs · Mar 1, 2015

DzynKingRTR said:
no you missed my point completely. the problem with evolution is it had to have a beginning. if we evolved from a single cell organism than what made the single cell organism and what made the thing that made the single cell organism and what made the thing that made the thing that made the single cell organism etc. as for creationism, well God made everything but what made God and what made the thing that made God etc. My whole point is everything has a beginning.

I agree. He missed your point. I had the same difficulty getting my atheist brother to see the point: Even if there is no god, what is it that brought into being what later became primordial soup? I suspect there is a shortcoming hardwired into our human perception that precludes us from reasoning out this particular puzzle. Logic won't help us in positively identifying the beginning of beginnings. At some point, you just have to go on faith and accept that it came into being because it came into being, and leave it at that.

jthomas666 · Mar 1, 2015

Jon said:
Does the the theory of heliocentrism have this problem as well? I mean something had to create the sun for us to go around, right?

And the theory of gravity is flawed because it doesn't explain where apples came from.

PacadermaTideUs · Mar 1, 2015

Perhaps what should have been said is that the use of the theory of evolution as a refutation of god is flawed?

TIDE-HSV · Mar 1, 2015

DzynKingRTR said:
no you missed my point completely. the problem with evolution is it had to have a beginning. if we evolved from a single cell organism than what made the single cell organism and what made the thing that made the single cell organism and what made the thing that made the thing that made the single cell organism etc. as for creationism, well God made everything but what made God and what made the thing that made God etc. My whole point is everything has a beginning.

I hesitate to speak for Jon, but what he's saying, I think, is that our minds, as western humans seems to want this to be true. Our religions reflect it. (Some eastern religions don't think like this at all.) Even some Native Americans see all life as a non-ending, non-beginning, circle. If one sees time as linear and we as traveling through it along that line, then obviously one is forced to believe in a beginning (and an end)...

DzynKingRTR · Mar 1, 2015

Jon said:
I agree that everything must have a beginning, and if evolution was a theory about how life began I would also agree with you that it has this problem. The issue comes in exactly there, evolution is a theory of how life got this way after it began. So therefor, this cannot be a problem with evolution by default. To use you example, what made that first life form be it a single cell or something else is not in any way addressed by the theory of evolution so it cannot be a problem the theory has.

Does the the theory of heliocentrism have this problem as well? I mean something had to create the sun for us to go around, right?

you are actually expanding on my point. I will spell it out for you.

The problem with every theory of how life began is we have to accept a premise that life started from nothing and suddenly something was there for no reason at all and then made everything else. It really can make your head explode if you think about it too much. My favorite thing is that everyone who completely believes their theory thinks they explain the answer when they explain nothing.

DzynKingRTR · Mar 1, 2015

PacadermaTideUs said:
Perhaps what should have been said is that the use of the theory of evolution as a refutation of god is flawed?

YES

Mamacalled · Mar 1, 2015

dWarriors88 said:
I seem to recall a theory that suggested each black hole creates a new seperate "universe", which could, in theory, explain a big "bang" because a black hole is created by an immensely powerful explosion of a star. also could explain the mass quandary of black holes and why they are so massive, also physicist can tie in dark matter into the theory to make it all smooth. As with any theory regarding the nature of our origins, it's got holes but it's really incredible when you consider all the galaxies in our universe center around a supermassive black hole..

And I personally hope that this idea of no beggining holds water for a long time, because intuitively, it makes sense. We've all been here before and we'll all be here again.

What created the star that exploded?

dWarriors88 · Mar 1, 2015

DzynKingRTR said:
no you missed my point completely. the problem with evolution is it had to have a beginning. if we evolved from a single cell organism than what made the single cell organism and what made the thing that made the single cell organism and what made the thing that made the thing that made the single cell organism etc. as for creationism, well God made everything but what made God and what made the thing that made God etc. My whole point is everything has a beginning.

>what made the single cell organism

High pressures and chemical reactions within colliding matter from super novae which then froze in place within comets, ala panspermia.

the mystery is where did the matter originate from, and less on life. The idea that life arose and evolved from seemingly nothing is not really as far fetched as many would like to make it seem, given the amount of time (billions of years) and resiliency that life has shown to exhibit during extreme circumstances, what will be said when we discover microorganisms (or something greater) swimming around on Europa in a number of years when we send a droid there? If we find evidence that life is capable of adapting on other exoplanets, will theologians start adapting their philosophy accordingly?

Link: Big Bang, Deflated? Universe May Have Had No Beginning

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