Why Can't We Disagree With Someone's Bedroom Decisions?

chanson78 · Mar 4, 2015

RedStar said:
And I don't think you're a bigot for that. Basically we're allowed to disagree. It bothers me that we're getting to a point where we're not.

This isn't about rights or marriage, etc. The original Deadspin article wasn't about that at all. The original quote from Murphy wasn't about that at all. But simply disagreeing with someone's beliefs or choices got him labeled a bigot. That bothers me.

Here is where you and I have a disconnect. There is no implicit belief in my disagreement with you that makes you believe I think you are living in 'sin'.

I am not sure how else to explain this any better. Just because I disagree with you, there is no implied 'judgement' of that lifestyle based upon my disagreement. When I say 'I disagree with you because the magic toaster in my attic says people who are married to Auburn fans are all dirty, living in sin, and when I ascend to the great breadbox in the sky, even though I love you, and wish you could join me, my magic toaster says you are not allowed, all because you married an Auburn fan.' then that implies judgement. I am using my belief to make quantifications on your lifestyle. Personally, I still don't think thats bigoted, but it was your question not mine.

Jon · Mar 4, 2015

GreatDanish said:
Here's how a Presidential candidate allows the "gay" question to eliminate any possibility of becoming President: Ben Carson says Prison proves that being gay is a choice.

wow, I keep hearing how "brilliant" this guy is only to see him make mindbogglingly stupid comments on air and in print.

Jon · Mar 4, 2015

RedStar said:
And I don't think you're a bigot for that. Basically we're allowed to disagree. It bothers me that we're getting to a point where we're not.

This isn't about rights or marriage, etc. The original Deadspin article wasn't about that at all. The original quote from Murphy wasn't about that at all. But simply disagreeing with someone's beliefs or choices got him labeled a bigot. That bothers me.

didn't read the article

but you know if he just kept his mouth shut no one would be calling him anything

RTR91 · Mar 4, 2015

Jon said:
publicly proclaiming my disgust with the way he lives his life? Telling him he will burn for eternity for treating his marriage this way? Treating him differently because of what he is into? Not wanting to do business with him because of this? You know Bigot stuff.

I still send this guy into my largest accounts, he is a brilliant engineer

So someone is a bigot because they do something you don't like?

Jon said:
didn't read the article

but you know if he just kept his mouth shut no one would be calling him anything

So you want to limit a person's ability to voice his/her opinion? That's what RS is trying to address here. Murphy can say he doesn't like a person's choice of politics but can't say he doesn't agree with a person's bedroom choice? Why? Might hurt someone's feelings? It's not a popular opinion?

RedStar · Mar 4, 2015

Jon said:
didn't read the article

but you know if he just kept his mouth shut no one would be calling him anything

I know. That's what bothers me. The silencing of opinions isn't cool. He said nothing of equality, or marriage, or any of the hot button issues. He simply said he doesn't agree with the lifestyle. He could say he doesn't agree with the swinger lifestyle and no one would bat an eye. It's a weird social climate and I don't like it.

GreatDanish · Mar 4, 2015

Jon said:
wow, I keep hearing how "brilliant" this guy is only to see him make mindbogglingly stupid comments on air and in print.

I think he is brilliant. But, being brilliant doesn't mean you are smart at everything. He's extremely brilliant in neuroscience and neurosurgery. But perhaps his brilliance in those areas has hindered him in others.

TideEngineer08 · Mar 4, 2015

Jon said:
didn't read the article

but you know if he just kept his mouth shut no one would be calling him anything

It's going to get to the point that one simply won't be able to "keep his mouth shut" anymore.

What is a pastor to do when a gay couple requests that he marry them and he refuses? Today, he can get away with that. Tomorrow, that probably won't be the case anymore. The pastor can't simply ignore the gay couple and not respond to them. He or she must state that they will not marry them, and give reasons why. Then the gay couple will sue the pastor and the church.

If you say that is silly or ridiculous, I would have thought the same thing about a stupid wedding cake. Yes I understand one is a business and the other is a church. I'm saying the lines will continue to be blurred until there is no difference in society's (and the government's) eyes.

RedStar · Mar 4, 2015

chanson78 said:
Here is where you and I have a disconnect. There is no implicit belief in my disagreement with you that makes you believe I think you are living in 'sin'.

I am not sure how else to explain this any better. Just because I disagree with you, there is no implied 'judgement' of that lifestyle based upon my disagreement. When I say 'I disagree with you because the magic toaster in my attic says people who are married to Auburn fans are all dirty, living in sin, and when I ascend to the great breadbox in the sky, even though I love you, and wish you could join me, my magic toaster says you are not allowed, all because you married an Auburn fan.' then that implies judgement. I am using my belief to make quantifications on your lifestyle. Personally, I still don't think thats bigoted, but it was your question not mine.

This isn't about whether or not anyone is "living in sin." You keep equating this to beliefs and it's not about that, or at least it wasn't. You were the one who opened that can of worms. He got lambasted simply for saying he doesn't agree with the lifestyle. No one would have cared if he had said he didn't agree with the BDSM lifestyle, etc...

AUDub · Mar 4, 2015

Jon said:
wow, I keep hearing how "brilliant" this guy is only to see him make mindbogglingly stupid comments on air and in print.

Republican primaries will be fun in '16. He is a great surgeon, though.

GreatDanish · Mar 4, 2015

About Murphy... The original article on nj.com says this...

"Murphy, a devout Christian, said he would embrace Bean despite a divergence in their beliefs."
"But Murphy also saw the moment as an opening for a conversation and an avenue to get past stereotypes. "

Seeing that this was from a newspaper, I doubt Murphy just started saying this unprompted. He was likely called and asked about it. In that case, had he not answered the questions, he would have been Marshawn Lynch. He answers the question and people say he should have kept it to himself.

I think RedStar's point is largely this - Murphy is saying he wants to treat Bean well and even thinks it is good for Bean to be there. He even compares homosexuality to his own "sins" (as opposed to comparing it to beastiality or pedophilia like some have done). But because he believes homosexuality is a sin, he's a bigot - even though he also labels pride a sin, yet no one calls him a bigot for having those other beliefs about what is sin.

There are idiots in the whole homosexuality discussion - Ben Carson, for instance. This is not one of those times. Murphy did nothing wrong and the fact that people are calling him a bigot is really stupid.

chanson78 · Mar 4, 2015

RedStar said:
This isn't about whether or not anyone is "living in sin." You keep equating this to beliefs and it's not about that, or at least it wasn't. You were the one who opened that can of worms. He got lambasted simply for saying he doesn't agree with the lifestyle. No one would have cared if he had said he didn't agree with the BDSM lifestyle, etc...

And you are misrepresenting what he actually said. He said "I disagree ... as a Chrsitian" You seem to think that the two are disconnected. Earlier you mentioned that he said nothing about marriage, equality, or any of the hot button issues. He carries the baggage of common public conception, right, wrong, or indifferent, that is associated with self labeling as a Christian. For the majority of Christians out there, who aren't homophobic, or the like, they truly don't have an issue with it. Live and let live and all that. However he is assuming the baggage of those who are much more vocal.

If he said "I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle because two dudes touching weiners weirds me out" I doubt anyone would care. Whether you think it is correct or not, there is powerful baggage attached to the Christian label.

RedStar · Mar 4, 2015

chanson78 said:
And you are misrepresenting what he actually said. He said "I disagree ... as a Chrsitian" You seem to think that the two are disconnected. Earlier you mentioned that he said nothing about marriage, equality, or any of the hot button issues. He carries the baggage of common public conception, right, wrong, or indifferent, that is associated with self labeling as a Christian. For the majority of Christians out there, who aren't homophobic, or the like, they truly don't have an issue with it. Live and let live and all that. However he is assuming the baggage of those who are much more vocal.

If he said "I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle because two dudes touching weiners weirds me out" I doubt anyone would care. Whether you think it is correct or not, there is powerful baggage attached to the Christian label.

He's only assuming that baggage because you put it on him. He said nothing bigoted in his quote. To pretend he did is to be judgmental and bigoted. The two things you're trying to eradicate.

TideEngineer08 · Mar 4, 2015

chanson78 said:
If he said "I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle because two dudes touching weiners weirds me out" I doubt anyone would care. Whether you think it is correct or not, there is powerful baggage attached to the Christian label.

LOL, that is extremely naive. You are no longer allowed to be weirded out by it anymore than you are to say it is a sin based upon Christianity.

RTR91 · Mar 4, 2015

chanson78 said:
And you are misrepresenting what he actually said. He said "I disagree ... as a Chrsitian" You seem to think that the two are disconnected. Earlier you mentioned that he said nothing about marriage, equality, or any of the hot button issues. He carries the baggage of common public conception, right, wrong, or indifferent, that is associated with self labeling as a Christian. For the majority of Christians out there, who aren't homophobic, or the like, they truly don't have an issue with it. Live and let live and all that. However he is assuming the baggage of those who are much more vocal.

If he said "I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle because two dudes touching weiners weirds me out" I doubt anyone would care. Whether you think it is correct or not, there is powerful baggage attached to the Christian label.

You're more than kidding yourself if you don't think folks wouldn't care if he made that comment.

RedStar · Mar 4, 2015

GreatDanish said:
About Murphy... The original article on nj.com says this...

"Murphy, a devout Christian, said he would embrace Bean despite a divergence in their beliefs."
"But Murphy also saw the moment as an opening for a conversation and an avenue to get past stereotypes. "

Seeing that this was from a newspaper, I doubt Murphy just started saying this unprompted. He was likely called and asked about it. In that case, had he not answered the questions, he would have been Marshawn Lynch. He answers the question and people say he should have kept it to himself.

I think RedStar's point is largely this - Murphy is saying he wants to treat Bean well and even thinks it is good for Bean to be there. He even compares homosexuality to his own "sins" (as opposed to comparing it to beastiality or pedophilia like some have done). But because he believes homosexuality is a sin, he's a bigot - even though he also labels pride a sin, yet no one calls him a bigot for having those other beliefs about what is sin.

There are idiots in the whole homosexuality discussion - Ben Carson, for instance. This is not one of those times. Murphy did nothing wrong and the fact that people are calling him a bigot is really stupid.

Funny how he's the one aiming for reconciliation.

Jon · Mar 4, 2015

RTR91 said:
So someone is a bigot because they do something you don't like?

No and how did you get this from that?

RTR91 said:
So you want to limit a person's ability to voice his/her opinion? That's what RS is trying to address here. Murphy can say he doesn't like a person's choice of politics but can't say he doesn't agree with a person's bedroom choice? Why? Might hurt someone's feelings? It's not a popular opinion?

There is no choice here, that is the difference between all of us, comes up again and again in all of these threads and it is really the root of all of this.

I've never, ever looked at a man and thought "Yeah, I'd hit that", but I have thought it and various degrees of that since I was around 12 about women. My gay friends tell me the opposite. When they hit puberty all they could think of was their own sex. To someone like me, that thinks the way I do, saying anything negative about someone because they are gay is like saying something negative because they are black, or Puerto Rican or japanese. they didn't choose to be black it's how they were born, being gay is absolutely no different.

chanson78 · Mar 4, 2015

RedStar said:
He's only assuming that baggage because you put it on him. He said nothing bigoted in his quote. To pretend he did is to be judgmental and bigoted. The two things you're trying to eradicate.

For the record. I never said he was a bigot. I was trying to explain why some may feel that his statements were bigoted.

Anyways, I am off to be bigoted against Christians who simply disagree with other people. Good luck getting your conscience cleared.

RedStar · Mar 4, 2015

Jon said:
No and how did you get this from that?

There is no choice here, that is the difference between all of us, comes up again and again in all of these threads and it is really the root of all of this.

I've never, ever looked at a man and thought "Yeah, I'd hit that", but I have thought it and various degrees of that since I was around 12 about women. My gay friends tell me the opposite. When they hit puberty all they could think of was their own sex. To someone like me, that thinks the way I do, saying anything negative about someone because they are gay is like saying something negative because they are black, or Puerto Rican or japanese. they didn't choose to be black it's how they were born, being gay is absolutely no different.

And being sexually attracted to overweight obese women is no different either, but no one is labeled a bigot for thinking it's gross. They just say "different strokes for different folks I guess."

RedStar · Mar 4, 2015

chanson78 said:
For the record. I never said he was a bigot. I was trying to explain why some may feel that his statements were bigoted.

Anyways, I am off to be bigoted against Christians who simply disagree with other people. Good luck getting your conscience cleared.

Ok.

cbi1972 · Mar 4, 2015

RedStar said:
Nah. I'm not letting you off the hook that easy. You responded to a thread without reading it. Don't put it on me.

I read a lot of irrelevant things and addressed the original question.

If you are as mild with your opinions as you say you are, then there really should be no problem, and we are in accord.

But IF you venture into the specific activities I mentioned, then that is where conflict arises.

However, I have noticed a tendency among Christians to express feelings of persecution when what they are actually experiencing is dissent, and that will get called out every time.

Why Can't We Disagree With Someone's Bedroom Decisions?

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