Why Can't We Disagree With Someone's Bedroom Decisions?

RedStar

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Inherent in the expectation that people choose someone counter to who they want to be with, implies that homosexuality is a choice.
Sounds like that's how you're reading it because you want an argument. Let me save you the trouble. I don't think homosexuality is a choice. I think it can be, the same way anyone can choose to try something new because that's what curious people do. But for the large majority? No, I don't think it's a choice at all.

Now that that's out of the way. Care to address my questions again?
 

TideMom2Boys

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The moment you insist on telling me who you're sleeping with, you MADE IT my business by YOUR CHOICE of telling me.

I don't care, Jon, but this is why the color = sexual orientation parallel won't work, either. I don't know your s.o. until you tell me.

If your self-esteem is so low that you are DEMANDING that I endorse it then said person has much deeper problems than who they're sleeping with.

Have you encountered many men that come up to you and say "Just so you know, I sleep with men"?
 

Tide1986

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Inherent in the expectation that people choose someone counter to who they want to be with, implies that homosexuality is a choice.



You know thats not what I was saying and this was a ridiculous question.

There is a big difference between thinking that humans are going to go off rutting like wild dogs because they cannot control their urges, and realizing that sexuality is a huge part of the human experience. You both are expecting that these people, who are born with desires counter to your own, to live the way you live your life, make the choices in sexual partners that are aligned with a book they may or may not believe in all so that they could possibly gain full unconditional love from those around them who believe as you (I am assuming) do.
Again, we all have desires.
 

chanson78

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The moment you insist on telling me who you're sleeping with, you MADE IT my business by YOUR CHOICE of telling me.
You could say the same thing about people being concerned about being called bigots. Until someone opens their mouth to say they don't agree with homosexuality, or that gays are going to hell, or whatever variant people are choosing these days, no one would have any reason to call them bigoted.
 

Jon

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What classifies as doing "anything bigoted"?
publicly proclaiming my disgust with the way he lives his life? Telling him he will burn for eternity for treating his marriage this way? Treating him differently because of what he is into? Not wanting to do business with him because of this? You know Bigot stuff.

I still send this guy into my largest accounts, he is a brilliant engineer
 

RedStar

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publicly proclaiming my disgust with the way he lives his life? Telling him he will burn for eternity for treating his marriage this way? Treating him differently because of what he is into? Not wanting to do business with him because of this? You know Bigot stuff.

I still send this guy into my largest accounts, he is a brilliant engineer
Sounds like you've encountered some really terrible Christians.

Funny how it's ok to label groups with a wide reaching stereotype as long as you disagree with that group.
 

selmaborntidefan

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You could say the same thing about people being concerned about being called bigots. Until someone opens their mouth to say they don't agree with homosexuality, or that gays are going to hell, or whatever variant people are choosing these days, no one would have any reason to call them bigoted.
We're all bigots, though, is the difference.

ALL of us no matter how enlightened.
 

chanson78

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Sounds like that's how you're reading it because you want an argument. Let me save you the trouble. I don't think homosexuality is a choice. I think it can be, the same way anyone can choose to try something new because that's what curious people do. But for the large majority? No, I don't think it's a choice at all.

Now that that's out of the way. Care to address my questions again?
Not really, mainly because the question is specious.

You assume that telling someone you love them but disagree with them being an Auburn fan is exactly the same as telling someone you love them but disagree with their lifestyle choice to act on their homosexual nature.

There are so many things wrong this.

1. You have already acquiesced that homosexuality is nature not nurture.
2. If you are willing to stand by the above example, you then also assume that being an Auburn fan is nature not nurture.
Finally and here is the kicker:
3. There is no book that says being an Auburn fan is immoral, against God's nature, and a sin.

Fair or not, there is an implied assignment of judgement with regards to believing someone's lifestyle decision is something that goes against God's will, which is why you disagree with their choice. Now I know many will say "But thats not me, I couldn't possibly pass judgement, thats not for me, its for God to judge." And for everyone of those, you have the Billy Grahams, Pat Robertsons and Westboro people yelling anything but that message.

You call it disagreeing with someone's lifestyle. They hear that you think they are going to hell for living as God (if they believe in him) made them.
 
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RedStar

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Not really, mainly because the question is specious.

You assume that telling someone you love them but disagree with them being an Auburn fan is exactly the same as telling someone you love them but disagree with their lifestyle choice to act on their homosexual nature.

There are so many things wrong this.

1. You have already acquiesced that homosexuality is nature not nurture.
2. If you are willing to stand by the above example, you then also assume that being an Auburn fan is nature not nurture.
Finally and here is the kicker:
3. There is no book that says being an Auburn fan is immoral, against God's nature, and a sin.

Fair or not, there is an implied assignment of judgement with regards to believing someone's lifestyle decision is something that goes against God's will, which is why you disagree with their choice. Now I now many will say "But thats not me, I couldn't possibly pass judgement, thats not for me." And for everyone of those, you have the Billy Grahams, Pat Robertsons and Westboro people yelling anything but that message.

You call it disagreeing with someone's lifestyle. They hear that you think they are going to hell for living as God (if they believe in him) made them.
Nice that you chose one of the more lighthearted questions I asked. You did that for a reason, because you think that strengthens your argument. If you go back and notice I mixed in some lighthearted questions with some serious, life altering decisions. The fact that you attacked one of the lighthearted questions speaks volumes. Why climb Everest when you can climb Cheaha Mountain right?

First off I never said anything about homosexuality. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I guess I'll have to say it one more time. I'll type it in all caps this time so maybe you can read it as I intended.

DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE'S CHOICE OF WHO THEY SLEEP WITH? NOT OK.

And I guess I'll have to address this because you can't seem to get around it. Maybe I'm controversial in my view on this, but whatever. I don't think being homosexual is a sin if you're not acting on those desires. I think acting on your homosexual desires is a sin. You can't help who you're attracted to, or who you love. But then again, those aren't the issues I'm talking about here. I'm talking about the actual act of sin.

I have a lot (A LOT) of sinful desires. I was born with them. It takes everything I have to not act on them. We're all born with sinful desires, acting on those desires is what makes it a sin.

I love to drink. I'm a big fan of going to a party or social gathering and drinking until I'm the life of the party (or at least to the point where I think I am). It's a desire I have to fight every time I go to a place where alcohol is flowing. I choose not to act on those desires because I don't want to sin. Do I drink? Sure. Do I get blackout drink and forget my name? No. (We could go off on another tangent about alcohol/sin/faith/Christianity, but let's not.)

Some have a temptation to sleep around outside their marriage. Some have a temptation to lie just to see if they can get away with it. Some have a desire to steal, etc. The important thing to note is that temptation isn't the same as sin.

We all agree that life isn't fair right? I mean that's basically been ingrained in all of us for as long as we can remember. That sad and unfair part of life is truer for some more than others. Some people are born with desires or temptations that will leave them unfulfilled. God creates us how he creates us. It's not up to us to ask why.

Romans 9:19-21

19 Well then, you might say, “Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven’t they simply done what he makes them do?”

20 No, don’t say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn’t he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into?
My life isn't perfect, I'm not perfect. I sin daily. But my desire is not to follow through with the temptations placed before me.
 
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chanson78

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Nice that you chose one of the more lighthearted questions I asked. You did that for a reason, because you think that strengthens your argument. If you go back and notice I mixed in some lighthearted questions with some serious, life altering decisions. The fact that you attacked one of the lighthearted questions speaks volumes. Why climb Everest when you can climb Cheaha Mountain right?
The only other question you asked that wasn't a comparison of a choice was "Why is that not an acceptable answer?".

I chose to tackle the other (which was really just a variation of the same question) one since you to think it is not offensive to say you disagree with someone for how they live their life, given that is how they are made.

That is the main cognitive disconnect. And one I can guarantee you will never sway me on, and I can see that I will never sway you on.

We all agree that life isn't fair right? I mean that's basically been ingrained in all of us for as long as we can remember. That sad and unfair part of life is truer for some more than others. Some people are born with desires or temptations that will leave them unfulfilled. God creates us how he creates us. It's not up to us to ask why.
You assume that I agree with this. You see it as God placing additional trials and tribulations on this one person, just because. Its not for us to wonder why. However should this person jump through all the hoops, they get salvation.

I won't go into my opinion regarding this type of being. Suffice to say, my position is not the above.
 

RedStar

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I chose to tackle the other (which was really just a variation of the same question) one since you to think it is not offensive to say you disagree with someone for how they live their life, given that is how they are made.

That is the main cognitive disconnect. And one I can guarantee you will never sway me on, and I can see that I will never sway you on.
But in your eyes, it's ok for you to say you disagree with the way I live my life?
 

cbi1972

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Why can't we disagree with someone's bedroom decisions?

You can.

But as soon as you try to control them or deny them rights based on provincial antiquated beliefs or an 'icky' feeling then you're in for a fight.

If you make your wrong opinion widely known, then you're going to get blasted by people who disagree with you, which is more and more people all the time.

What do you really expect?

There is an easy solution. Keep your opinions private.
 

chanson78

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But in your eyes, it's ok for you to say you disagree with the way I live my life?
How in the world did you get that? How you live your life has no impact on me whatsoever, therefore I have no opinion on how you live your life. Why should I care?

Are you coming at this from the angle that since I don't believe/live my life exactly the way you do, I somehow disagree with the way you live your life?
 

RedStar

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How in the world did you get that? How you live your life has no impact on me whatsoever, therefore I have no opinion on how you live your life. Why should I care?

Are you coming at this from the angle that since I don't believe/live my life exactly the way you do, I somehow disagree with the way you live your life?
It's a simple question. Do you agree or disagree with my beliefs or choices?

Don't say you don't have an opinion, your numerous replies in this thread prove you have an opinion.
 
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RedStar

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Why can't we disagree with someone's bedroom decisions?

You can.

But as soon as you try to control them or deny them rights based on provincial antiquated beliefs or an 'icky' feeling then you're in for a fight.

If you make your wrong opinion widely known, then you're going to get blasted by people who disagree with you, which is more and more people all the time.

What do you really expect?

There is an easy solution. Keep your opinions private.
I'm going to stop responding to these soon because apparently a lot of people are skipping over the entire premise of this thread.

Please read my original post. There is nothing in it about rights or marriage equality, etc.
 

cbi1972

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I'm going to stop responding to these soon because apparently a lot of people are skipping over the entire premise of this thread.

Please read my original post. There is nothing in it about rights or marriage equality, etc.
In that case you can stop at "You can" and skip all the items which are prefaced by contingent clauses representing the specific things that raise the ire of your opponents.
 

RedStar

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Fine I'll bite. I disagree.
And I don't think you're a bigot for that. Basically we're allowed to disagree. It bothers me that we're getting to a point where we're not.

This isn't about rights or marriage, etc. The original Deadspin article wasn't about that at all. The original quote from Murphy wasn't about that at all. But simply disagreeing with someone's beliefs or choices got him labeled a bigot. That bothers me.
 

RedStar

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In that case you can stop at "You can" and skip all the items which are prefaced by contingent clauses representing the specific things that raise the ire of your opponents.
Nah. I'm not letting you off the hook that easy. You responded to a thread without reading it. Don't put it on me.
 
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