We know that the new secondary coach is fresh from the NFL so I'm sure he's up on any new techniques for those positions. I think with the talent in CB's and S's that we have, we will be good again.
I have fresh credit cards, sadly... [emoji53]I
Hope y'all have fun, travel safely. Better have a fresh credit card.
I just think he needs to stop coaching the secondary and be the head coach. With all due respect, in games we've lost against Oklahoma, Ohio State, Texas A@M, etc..our secondary has gotten absolutely fried.Now there's a post I never thought I'd read on a Bama forum!
Just how exactly do you think Saban's current coaching is hurting the Tide immensely?
I'm sorry, but I've been seeing you and others post this kind of bologna over and over and it's ridiculous. I've touched on this before, but let's go back to it.We teach this philosophy of trying to read the receiver's eyes and to get a hand up without turning.
(1) Because that's how he explains it at coaching clinics, and to the press.I'm sorry, but I've been seeing you and others post this kind of bologna over and over and it's ridiculous. I've touched on this before, but let's go back to it.
#1 - How would you or 99% of the people on this board have ANY idea what "philosophy" our coaches are teaching our DB's?
#2 - Why in the world would you think a coach as good as Coach Saban would purposefully teach a philosophy that is so very clearly not working?
#3 - Why in the world would you think he would CONTINUE to teach that same philosophy after it had been OBVIOUSLY producing sub-par results?
#4 - You can teach until you're blue in the face, but it's up to the players to make the play. I find it incredibly hard to believe that our coaches tell the players, "Hey, don't worry about the ball when it's in the air and DEFINITELY don't try to turn your head around."
#5 - How many first round (or even early round) draft picks have we had playing CB the past couple years? Here's a hint - none. Think that doesn't affect the performance of our secondary?
#6 - It's silly to think that our coaches have magically forgotten how to coach CB's. Our secondary play hasn't been as good because we haven't had Jackson, Arenas, Milliner, Kirkpatrick, etc. We had a couple years with relative misses at recruiting CB's and the results played out on the field.
Ultimately I think your tone will change drastically in a couple years when our last two recruiting classes are juniors and seniors. But it still blows my mind how people continue to act like the solution to our CB play is SO OBVIOUS and that Coach Saban is COMPLETELY unaware of it, so they need to point it out.
/Rant
At least you are partially right.(1) Because that's how he explains it at coaching clinics, and to the press.
(2) Hmmm....maybe because he's egotistical and stubborn??
(3) See (2)
(4) Well think again. That's what they're being taught.
(5) Maybe that's because our secondary coach would rather convert a wide receiver to cornerback, or rehabiltate an injured cornerback, rather than simply playing the number one and two cornerback prospects in the nation. You'll have to ask Coach S. that question, because I have absolutley no idea.
(6) We've recruited the highest rated corners in the nation. We simply don't give them a chance to play. We like "Projects" for some reason. Again, I have no idea why. The talent is there.
Rant over here as well.
RTR
sip
Tony Brown and Humphrey at corner, or Eddie Jackson and Cyrus Jones?Your call. You're the head coach.Bring it.At least you are partially right.
On the flip side, what is more frustrating, is that we don't seem to teach our QB's to exploit DB's on deep sideline balls like the other teams always seem to do to us. I mean, think about it - we're getting some of the highest rated DB's out of high school and other teams always find a way to take advantage of our guys. So why shouldn't we be able to do more of the same to the lesser DB's that the other teams are getting? Beat them at their own game. Many times we have great tight coverage on the WR's, it's just that they go up and make the play and beat us. We can do it to them also. Our WR's don't have to be wide open for us to throw the ball to them.BamaInBham is spot on, the timing of looking up is critical. It seems our DBs look up too late and the back shoulder throw is almost always completed against them. And Earle is right, look up to soon and the WR runs past the DB.
How lucky you were to get to speak to Coach Kines for any length of time.To expand on Earle's post: I was fortunate enough to discuss this very issue with Joe Kines at an alumni event.
Kines said the timing of the look back, and whether to do so at all, should depend on the defensive position of the DB.
The phrase Kines used was, "in phase." He said that if the DB is in phase with the WR, he should look back when the receiver does. If he's not, even if it's by only a half- or even quarter-step, the DB shouldn't look back, but should try to disrupt the catch. Failing that, he's still in position to make the tackle after the catch.
Reason being, if the DB isn't in phase, and looks back anyway, the distance between himself and the WR invariably increases. In other words, the DB exacerbates the problem.
Compounding that, if he's the last line of defense -- i.e., there's no deep help behind him -- you risk turning a 15 yard gainer into a TD.
The definition of "in phase" was more complicated than I ever would have thought. It had to do not only with being on the receiver, but also figured in the DB's hip and shoulder position relative to the WR and other stuff that was honestly lost on me.
But for the average fan, of you think of "in phase" as "having really good coverage," you'll have the concept.
Kines also said this was about the hardest technical thing to teach the freshmen. To that point in their athletic careers, they have always been head-and-shoulders the best player on the field. They've been able to make up for suboptimal technique with sheer ability and speed.
So they have a really hard time admitting, even to themselves, that the WR got the better of them, even if by only a hair.
Unfortunately for them, SEC receivers eat that for breakfast. Some learn after being burned a couple of times in practice. Others have to get their pants yanked down in a game. Still others never really do.
What I took away from Kines' explanation was that whether and when to look back is a lot more complicated than many of us ever thought.
We're so lucky that you know so much more about football than Coach Saban.(1) Because that's how he explains it at coaching clinics, and to the press.
(2) Hmmm....maybe because he's egotistical and stubborn??
(3) See (2)
(4) Well think again. That's what they're being taught.
(5) Maybe that's because our secondary coach would rather convert a wide receiver to cornerback, or rehabiltate an injured cornerback, rather than simply playing the number one and two cornerback prospects in the nation. You'll have to ask Coach S. that question, because I have absolutley no idea.
(6) We've recruited the highest rated corners in the nation. We simply don't give them a chance to play. We like "Projects" for some reason. Again, I have no idea why. The talent is there.
Rant over here as well.
RTR
sip
Why do you think it will stop then? It probably never will. You probably just need to resign yourself to a never-ending debate.I will be so glad when we return back to the practice in two weeks..... this is a topic that has been beat to death nonstop over the last few months........
2010: Kareeem Jackson (20th overall)How many first round (or even early round) draft picks have we had playing CB the past couple years? Here's a hint - none.
I wrote as plain as the nose on your face that I thought Coach Saban was the best head coach in college football, and I do.We're so lucky that you know so much more about football than Coach Saban.
Yeah Sip... but if getting into the drills with the DBs is what keeps Coach in touch with the players and by all accounts is his favorite part of the job, then Coach Saban helping out with the secondary is a good thing.I wish Coach S. would leave the secondary coaching to the secondary coach, and just start being the "Head Coach".
I think it would help us immensely.
sip
Yeah, I did learn something. He's a super nice guy. But that voice....my ears rang for days afterward.How lucky you were to get to speak to Coach Kines for any length of time.
Those games weren't about Saban's philosophy of tracking the ball in the air. Those games revolved around defensive scheme issues.I just think he needs to stop coaching the secondary and be the head coach. With all due respect, in games we've lost against Oklahoma, Ohio State, Texas A@M, etc..our secondary has gotten absolutely fried.
That was more about a 5'10 CB covering a 6'3 WR than any philosophy Saban teaches.We teach this philosophy of trying to read the receiver's eyes and to get a hand up without turning.
It doesn't work. It's that simple. Look at the touchdown right before the half against Ohio State. The real game changer.
That's not true. Prior to Tony Brown and Marlon Humphrey, Alabama had not gotten a highly rated high school DB since Dee Milliner (#2 CB by Rivals) and John Fulton (#5 CB by Rivals).On the flip side, what is more frustrating, is that we don't seem to teach our QB's to exploit DB's on deep sideline balls like the other teams always seem to do to us. I mean, think about it - we're getting some of the highest rated DB's out of high school and other teams always find a way to take advantage of our guys. So why shouldn't we be able to do more of the same to the lesser DB's that the other teams are getting? Beat them at their own game. Many times we have great tight coverage on the WR's, it's just that they go up and make the play and beat us. We can do it to them also. Our WR's don't have to be wide open for us to throw the ball to them.
I look at the way the game has changed since 2007. Offenses are different than what Saban saw his first year. He was slow to adapt the defensive scheme AND the recruiting. In 2012, he tried to begin to change the scheme with the same players he's had. In 2013, he began changing some of the way he recruited defensive guys. In the 2014 and 2015 classes, there was a much more noticeable difference.I don't know what went wrong in our secondary last year but something did. When Saban arrived he talked extensively about stopping the "big" play. He would be ok if we gave up short yardage stuff but he absolutely hated giving up big plays. Our championship years we were always good at keeping that to a minimum. Clearly what we saw late last year was not something Nick Saban wants. From what I could see it was everything, it was players out of position, uncovered recievers, getting out jumped for the ball, and failure to play the ball. I've seen this sort of thing in the past and it gets in the players heads. Once teams know they have it in their heads they try more deep balls. If the cycle isn't broken quickly it becomes a raging inferno of badness. We have to break the cycle early next season. It's the first thing teams are going to try. I'd wager the first play from scrimmage will be a home run shot.
I don't know what went wrong in our secondary last year but something did. When Saban arrived he talked extensively about stopping the "big" play. He would be ok if we gave up short yardage stuff but he absolutely hated giving up big plays. Our championship years we were always good at keeping that to a minimum. Clearly what we saw late last year was not something Nick Saban wants. From what I could see it was everything, it was players out of position, uncovered recievers, getting out jumped for the ball, and failure to play the ball. I've seen this sort of thing in the past and it gets in the players heads. Once teams know they have it in their heads they try more deep balls. If the cycle isn't broken quickly it becomes a raging inferno of badness. We have to break the cycle early next season. It's the first thing teams are going to try. I'd wager the first play from scrimmage will be a home run shot.