California has one year's worth of water remaining per NASA scientist

Catfish · Mar 16, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
Somehow, I knew that, in a board packed with self-proclaimed economic experts, no one would know what the "Tragedy of the Commons" meant...

Isn't EVERY board packed with self-proclaimed economic experts?

92tide · Mar 16, 2015

Catfish said:
Isn't EVERY board packed with self-proclaimed economic experts?

i guess its a version of the tragedy of the commons

PacadermaTideUs · Mar 16, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
Somehow, I knew that, in a board packed with self-proclaimed economic experts, no one would know what the "Tragedy of the Commons" meant...

I wasn't familiar with the TotC, but then I've never claimed to be an economics expert. Incidentally, it's not just an economic theory. After reading about it, it's pretty much common sense: when dealing with common resources, self-interested actions work to the detriment of society as a whole. That's a lesson for kindergarten: share what belongs to the group. To take it a step further, common resources must be managed by society, often to the detriment of individual freedom. Got it. No problem.

What threw me off was your first sentence. I've read the thing ten times and still can't make any sense of it.

TIDE-HSV said:
Even severe restrictions will not make the millions upon millions of dollars which should have been made years ago in modern agricultural equipment to make what they have conserve what they have. For those who know at least a smidgeon of economics, it has a well-known name - "The Tragedy of the Commons..."

Bodhisattva · Mar 16, 2015

For those interested, here's a good summary. Everyone likes the idea of public property, but ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIOoIPjoiyk

Bodhisattva · Mar 16, 2015

For those interested, here's a good summary. Everyone likes the idea of public property, but ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIOoIPjoiyk

BamaPokerplayer · Mar 16, 2015

I'm not trying to be overly simplistic, but let's say California tanks because water essentially runs out. I have a few questions

1. I was under the impression there was plenty of farm land in the U.S.
2. The list CA posted can we do without those items. I don't know if you posted it for info, economic impact or something else CA, so I'm not trying to argue.
3. Would this have a major impact on illegals?
4. Would the Southeast be able to take advantage of this and see an uptick in agriculture jobs?
5. Are Nevada, espically Las Vegas, and Arizona screwed?

BamaPokerplayer · Mar 16, 2015

I'm not trying to be overly simplistic, but let's say California tanks because water essentially runs out. I have a few questions

1. I was under the impression there was plenty of farm land in the U.S.
2. The list CA posted can we do without those items. I don't know if you posted it for info, economic impact or something else CA, so I'm not trying to argue.
3. Would this have a major impact on illegals?
4. Would the Southeast be able to take advantage of this and see an uptick in agriculture jobs?
5. Are Nevada, espically Las Vegas, and Arizona screwed?

2003TIDE · Mar 16, 2015

BamaPokerplayer said:
1. I was under the impression there was plenty of farm land in the U.S.
?

So Cal and FL are the only 2 areas that we can get that much production from in the winter months I think.

Displaced Bama Fan · Mar 16, 2015

2003TIDE said:
So Cal and FL are the only 2 areas that we can get that much production from in the winter months I think.

South Texas, aka the Valley as well.

TIDE-HSV · Mar 16, 2015

PacadermaTideUs said:
I wasn't familiar with the TotC, but then I've never claimed to be an economics expert. Incidentally, it's not just an economic theory. After reading about it, it's pretty much common sense: when dealing with common resources, self-interested actions work to the detriment of society as a whole. That's a lesson for kindergarten: share what belongs to the group. To take it a step further, common resources must be managed by society, often to the detriment of individual freedom. Got it. No problem.

What threw me off was your first sentence. I've read the thing ten times and still can't make any sense of it.

It wasn't very well worded. Let me try again. The planning for this crisis should have begun at least 15 years ago, maybe 20. It would have taken millions upon millions of dollars in equipment investment to convert from sheet irrigation. That's where the TotC kicks in. Why should a farmer do that, when he looks over and his neighbor is pumping away for sheet, or, worse yet, is running booms. It's not going to happen. Only when the crunch comes and efficient irrigation becomes the only way to stay in business will real change be made, with pain for all of us. It's really the breakdown point of lassez faire economics. One slender volume which I read years ago was "Folklore of Capitalism" by Thurman Arnold. I've never looked at labels the same since. Some will consider him too far left because of his trust-busting as an assistant Attorney General, but his skeptical and iconoclastic view of standard political economics changed my views forever. (Don't know how many monopoly lovers there are out there...)

seebell · Mar 16, 2015

Thanks Tide HSV (can't reply with quote form some reason)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

The tragedy of the commons is an economic theory by Garrett Hardin, which states that individuals acting independently and rationally according to each's self-interest behave contrary to the best interests of the whole group by depleting some common resource. The term is taken from the title of an article written by Hardin in 1968, which is in turn based upon an essay by a Victorian economist on the effects of unregulated grazing on common land.

TIDE-HSV · Mar 16, 2015

Displaced Bama Fan said:
South Texas, aka the Valley as well.

Actually that's not true. South Texas has the same water problem the Central Valley of CA has, probably even worse after a few years...

TIDE-HSV · Mar 16, 2015

I had quite a number of economics classes. The term was in general use a long time before 1968...

Displaced Bama Fan · Mar 16, 2015

TIDE-HSV said:
Actually that's not true. South Texas has the same water problem the Central Valley of CA has, probably even worse after a few years...

My response wasn't that South Texas has plenty of water, it was in response to what areas of the country can grow fruits and veggies in the winter months.

Displaced Bama Fan · Mar 16, 2015

Agreed that Texas has water issues. Just look at all the lakes around Austin.

Displaced Bama Fan · Mar 16, 2015

Here's a house last year on Lake Whitney that fell off the cliff due to destabilization as a result of significant water level decreases.

http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/local/florida/2014/06/12/cliff-home-owner-lives-in-miami/10407689/

TIDE-HSV · Mar 16, 2015

OK, understood...

TIDE-HSV · Mar 16, 2015

Yes. Those are a symptom of an upcoming water problem. They're probably dwarfed by the California swimming pools...

92tide · Mar 26, 2015

link

In my previous post, I pointed out that agriculture uses 80% of the water in California but accounts for less than 2% of the economy. So how much water does almond production alone use? More water is used in almond production than is used by all the residents and businesses of San Francisco and Los Angeles combined.

[text bolded by me]

crimsonaudio · Apr 1, 2015

And so it begins - but is it too little, too late?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-governor-issues-unprecedented-statewide-water-restrictions/

California has one year's worth of water remaining per NASA scientist

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